[TS] Terminus Spartans

[Nusentinsaino]

Yeah. It's just a shame.

[Crazy Wolf]

I think that is fucking retarded. I wish humans would apply that logic everywhere, our world would be fucked.

"Well, we don't know for sure if the Russians want to invade us, but we should just nuke them anyway just in case, k?" ....

Surely you jest. You just compared people adopting renewable resources, living a less wasteful life, and advancing our civilization's technological skill forward to dropping atomic weapons on Russia. The only thing that could be bad about changing our fuels is that people who have an interest in fossil fuels would lose money to people capable of making a better, cleaner, product. Nuking Russia has the disadvantage of making "In Soviet/fascist Russia" jokes obsolete, and contaminating the surrounding countries.

It amazes me how people get the conceited idea that they are going to "save the Earth." George Carlin said it best: "the Earth isn't going anywhere; we are."

So give us more tech in order to more effectively survive those changes. Make solar power cheaper, and we can run air conditioners off the same thing that's cooking us. By using non-oil fuels, you can use oil for new plastics, making tools lighter or cloths that will help us survive.

We don't have the power to change the planet in every little detail. While adaptation of the environment to us is our greatest asset next to our intelligence, we cannot alter everything. We can destroy and we can create on a moderate level, but to completely cool the Earth just a few degrees to make it a bit more bearable to live on? No way Jose, not in this lifetime, or the next.

Change the planet in every little detail? We have a harder time tweaking the entire globe, but we certainly have the power to change massive areas of it, so what's so hard to believe about being able to tweak the entire globe? We can dam rivers, make deserts, connect oceans, drain seas, shape land to our will. You don't think this can have any effect? Certainly, earth will survive, but my concern is that it survives the way we like it, or as close to that as possible.

So get used to the fact that the world is changing. It is time that you learn how to adapt to the environment.

Part of adapting to that environment would be adopting fuels that aren't going anywhere. Fuels like tidal power, which, if ocean levels rise as predicted, will have a lot more seabed to put it on.

[Irish]

I watched the first 45 minutes of the Great Warming Swindle, then it stopped streaming for some reason, and I couldn't be bothered to stream it all again from the start. However, from what I saw, my thoughts are;

The first 10 minutes is pure poising the well. It's just a collection of people saying climate change is a "cult" "religion" etc etc., they don't actually attempt to dispute or provide any information. They also claim that it was designed/invented to prevent development in poorer countries (to prevent capitalism), ironically, the Kyoto agreement specifically excluded devolping countries, which was in fact a major criticism of it. Paradoxically, it's predominately capitalist countries that are now adopting meaures to reduce human's influence on climate change. The suggestion from the video was that it's due to scientists who want funding, so pretend there is a problem. The rebuttle is there actually any proof of this, or is it just speculation? I could equally speculate that oil companies fund research into trying to prove there is no problem.

It also mentions the Medieval Warm period, and says it was great, for Europe. What about the rest of the world? The MWP is thought to be largely confined to Europe, and was followed by a mini ice age. It is though that this may have been due to the perviously warmer temperature affecting sea salt levels, which altered/shut down the nearby thermohaline circulation (Gulf Stream).

The next part says "Anyone who thinks humans are responsible for most of global warming hasn't looked at the figures". That has never been suggested. Natural global warming is why our planet isn't sub-zero, it's not that global warming is evil, or that it doesn't happen naturally, it's that the balance is being altered, which in turn does have an affect on the climate. It mentions the importance of water vapour, and that greehouse gases account for a small percentage of total gases, but it amounts to the same argument, one which ignores natural balance. It's similar to saying "people die naturally, so it doesn't matter if we kill them".

It mentions the global dimming of the 1940's-70's (when industry was booming), but fails to mention that industry was also pumping out huge amounts of sulphate then, responsible for "global dimming". The use of sulphur is now limite due to adverse effects, such as acid rain. It also presents an out-of-date sunspot graph ('91), here's one from NASA, last updated the first of this month;



Anyone who thinks that humans can't have a significant effect on the earth only need look out their window, or perhaps research cfc's and the effects they have on the ozone. Like the YouTube video above asks, what is the worst that happens if climate change is false, and we spend money switching to renewables anyway? Cost, can anyone actually quantify it for me, an estimate of a figure, not words such as "massive" or "huge".

[AlphaZero]

Even if the majority of global warming ISN'T caused by humans, don't you want to improve the environment? I guess you have never walked into a polluted city and took a deep breath. All that shit put in the air from cars, trucks, and industries take a toll on your lungs. It's only a matter of time and exposure until some real damage is done...


I still don't understand why you don't want to improve the environment. Sure, some businesses may suffer from profit losses, but who the fuck cares in the long run. I want to go outside and breathe fresh air. Hell, in China people (in some parts of town) wear masks to protect their lungs from rampant pollution. Do you want America to be like that in 20-30 years?

"The world is warming up."

Yep. That's a fact that you cannot dispute.

"The world is warming up BECAUSE OF HUMANS."

No. Sorry... that's not the cause. It's warming up for the same reason Mars is warming up. For the same reason Venus is warming up. The sun is kicking out more energy. Energy that equals heat when it hits the planets.

Are we helping the Earth warm up? Probably. If all humans never existed, would it still be warming up at the same rate? Probably. After all, what we humans put out as a whole is minuscule compared to what the planet itself puts out in volcanoes alone.

And I've not even gotten into the scientific stuff about the core samples of ice that state that there is a bell curve of heating and cooling, with a few anomalies every so often.

All of that and the fact that a mere 30 years ago, when we were kicking out so many pollutants that you could practically walk on the smog over LA, scientists looked at the data of several harsh winters and very mild summers in a row and predicted that we would be entering an ice age by the 1990s and there was nothing we could do about it. And now that we're cleaning up our act, we're being told that we're causing global warming and that it's our fault.

Well, environmentalists... you're welcome. If what you say is true, then the industrial might of the first world saved the planet from an ice age. Of course, most say that the same scientists that say global warming now but said ice age then were wrong then. Well... are they wrong now? They said they were correct then. They say they are correct now.

Add into all of the above that they just discovered a new current that influences the global circulation of warm and cold water and you realize that the scientists were working on incomplete data. Data that is, most likely, still incomplete.

Why should I believe that global warming is the fault of humans, when you factor all of the above into the big old equation of life?

Please tell me where in that I said that I don't want to help the planet.

Good luck, because I never did. I just don't like humans getting blamed for the shape of the planet.

Try again, buddy.

[Evil]

I've read a good amount of stuff about global warming but my verdict on it is still out. Much of it seems exaggerated.

But I do think that many of the things the global warming people push are good, simple because they help to reduce pollution and are our resistance on other countries. Particularly, I'd love if we spent more money on solar, wind, and hydro power.

[imported_Chris]

Change the planet in every little detail? We have a harder time tweaking the entire globe, but we certainly have the power to change massive areas of it, so what's so hard to believe about being able to tweak the entire globe? We can dam rivers, make deserts, connect oceans, drain seas, shape land to our will. You don't think this can have any effect? Certainly, earth will survive, but my concern is that it survives the way we like it, or as close to that as possible.

You're trying to control something which frankly isn't meant to be controlled. You can stimulate it, you can change it a tad bit every once in a while, but to assert total dominance over an entire planet is something we just shouldn't do, at least with our present technology. We would be toying with something that, if toyed with too much, might not be repairable.

[AlphaZero]

I've read a good amount of stuff about global warming but my verdict on it is still out. Much of it seems exaggerated.

But I do think that many of the things the global warming people push are good, simple because they help to reduce population and are our resistance on other countries. Particularly, I'd love if we spent more money on solar, wind, and hydro power.

I think the environmentalists and global warming people do a lot of good. The bad things they do is blame humans for everything, stop any and every natural forest fire(leading to devastating fires rather than small ones) and have the attitude that "If you don't think humans cause global warming or speak out against our cause, even if it's just correcting our facts, YOU DON'T WANT TO HELP THE PLANET!"

See Jeffro for an example.

[WW_BITEME!!]

Global warming is a croc! The temperature of the globe has been going up and down for millions of years and is cyclical.

[Crazy Wolf]

You're trying to control something which frankly isn't meant to be controlled. You can stimulate it, you can change it a tad bit every once in a while, but to assert total dominance over an entire planet is something we just shouldn't do, at least with our present technology. We would be toying with something that, if toyed with too much, might not be repairable.

You have got to be kidding me. Do you have any idea how much humans have changed the world? We've leveled mountains, we've been farming for so long that in some places we've worn away the soil to dust, this has happened several times in different places, the primary example from modern history that is 100% indisputable is the Dust Bowl. How the hell is ripping material out of the earth, either through a small incision or the preferred method, ripping away the ground until you find what you want, not total dominance? Mining fucks almost every organism on the planet, removes tons of rock and dirt, poisons and/or stops up local rivers, etc, etc.

You have seen quarries or mines before, right? Its not like a Strip mine, once the vein is finished, puts back the earth just the way it was and unblocks the river and unpoisons the local aquifer.

[The Reaper]

You have seen quarries or mines before, right? Its not like a Strip mine, once the vein is finished, puts back the earth just the way it was and unblocks the river and unpoisons the local aquifer.

The local limestone quary also created a dangerous chemical, which is known to cause cancer and kill wildlife. Chemfuel or something it's called. So not only did the remove a whole lotta wilflide and plant life, they're now further killing it.

And when they're do mining in like 10 years, they're gonna flood it, not put back what the destroyed.