Thread: wondering

Originally Posted by Captain Coors

I love steel.

Badwater is starting to get a little old though already because its really tough to hold the map at any point except last. I haven't seen anyone hold it yet before last.

Play with a better team. :-P

I've held at the second point. It's actually the second best (or best) point to hold at, because of the ability to flank. The two secrets to B are get a sentry on the roof, and keep people moving to the flanks of the offense. WIthout sniper support from the rocks, anyone on the cart can just be beat to hell by demos and soldiers. Pushing pyros and spies through the buildings and into the rocks eliminates snipers and delays people getting to the cart. Even if you lose the second point, it takes a massive chunk of time off the clock if done properly.

Third point (underneath the wooden building) is also a nice spot to hold. Having a demo or two launch stuff into the upper buildings allows sentries to get set up. If you force the blue team underneath, they won't survive the Death-from-above.

It's really an interesting map in terms of attrition. All out defense on any point, once broken, leaves them free reign all the way back. Spreading out your engineer setups means they will take the first point(s) faster than an all-out defense, but will take too much time to get there.

Plus, I feel goldrush is too long. I think a two stage, 6-8 point pl_ map would be great. Perhaps we'll see one with the advent of the alpine terrain set.

Originally Posted by Captain Coors

Badwater is starting to get a little old though already because its really tough to hold the map at any point except last. I haven't seen anyone hold it yet before last.

I have helped hold it at the first point and been stopped at the 2nd point more times than I care to think about it. I like it, but I think people are still playing with the map and once they stop playing with it and starting playing it, it will be better.

Steel, people just need to listen. There have been a lot of different expereinces with steel. Unfortunately the defense needs to be on the ball from the moment they walk out the door for the first point because if they are not then they will get steam rolled. People forget that it is not just scouts that run to E, so 1 engi is not enough defense and if the attacking team sends an engi there and they get setup then you are in trouble. And...if you only had an engi there and they die and no one notices, then it takes to long for them to respawn and say 4 times they need help at E...

Steel is a fun map but I think the amount of actual teamwork needed it frustrating a lot of people. It is not just you needing someone else with you, but your whole team needs to be on the same page. I think this is a new expereince for TF2...
(not meant to say you are not teamplayers, because I am right there with you, just saying it is different)

Originally Posted by Manse

Play with a better team. :-P

When you held it, you were probably playing against a bad team.

Because with how wide open that map is, I am convinced a good offense will consistently blow through the first two points with ease.

We'll find out soon enough with FNF hopefully.

Originally Posted by Captain Coors

Originally Posted by Manse

Play with a better team. :-P

When you held it, you were probably playing against a bad team.

Because with how wide open that map is, I am convinced a good offense will consistently blow through the first two points with ease.

We'll find out soon enough with FNF hopefully.

Nope... Last FNF we held them before they could get point 4. They DID get through earlier caps easily. THEN we were stuck in the first choke point (trying to get cap 3) for almost the duration, barely getting cap 3 with overtime (and a beautiful uber by nekron). Then smashed on to cap 4. Its a GREAT map that has a good turning rate. Goldrush is better IMO but it is a 3 stage 7 cap map that can take almost an hour to get 1 round in.

A good offense will push cap 1 and 2 easily, but cap 3 and 4 both have HARDCORE choke points. That narrow alley way with tons of sentry locations and high ground to hold and cap 4 is just spam city trying to get the cart down the ramp.