Thread: Scouts

Here's an old post i dug up about scouts on D.

Originally Posted by Soldier

Originally Posted by Vulcan30

I see no reason for a Scout, even if he is Soldier to be on defense. Scouts, while could be nuissance and an anti-medic for defense, they are much more useful on offense. If a Scout is good one defense then they MUST be better on offense or otherwise sit the bench. C'mon, Scouts with their speed were designed to drive or progess in maps. Hell, I'd say a Scout was just as good as a middle-field player for soccer team -- able to bounce between D and O. But in all honestly, any defensive class clan do what a Scout does and will do it better.

My point is this: When you are on defense you know the focus points of where the enemy is going to be; therefore knowing where to guard. Valve designed maps this way. Speed is not needed when you KNOW where the enemy is going. Speed is needed to flanked and out position enemies. A rocket can hold back several enemies. A demo can hold back several enemies. A heavy can hold back several enemies. An engy can hold back several enemies. A scout can pick on several enemies, but what can they really do?

I'd take a good scout on offense any day of the week than a good scout on defense.

I very well agree that taking advantage of the Scout's speed is essential and that speed is especially useful when on offense in quite a few situations.

However, what use is the Scout(s) against a defensive position (sentries, Heavies, medic combos, etc.)? That is where their flimsiness is glaring and overshadows their mobility. Frankly, a Scout is unable to progress and is crippled against a bold defense, which is where their strength is supposed to lie in the first place. So, the best a Scout can do in this situation is to hold the territory he possesses already and wait for a different class or group of classes to break the threshold. Then, pounce the point when the enemy is distracted. This is when the Scout does more waiting then fighting.

When on defense, a Scout has a much lesser worry of an enemy defensive position and can move with limited barriers. Therefore; his reliance on teammates is drastically lowered and can operate at maximum efficiency.

Any person on defense needs to know all paths available to the offense and cover those paths in some manner, shape, or form. On offense, the defense will rarely leave their strong hold and even when they do, they won't be significant to its structure.

A Scout's ambush is an extremely deadly tactic on defense, you must know where the enemy comes from in order to prepare for them, this is what allows for flanking and out positioning to occur. The Scout's mobility makes him a tough target, his scattergun HURTS like hell to all classes, and he can retreat just as easily as he engaged, grab a med pack (another process made convenient through his speed), and quickly set up another ambush if needed.

During these ambushes, you can usually take out 1-2 people, but there are some times where the sudden shock immobilizes an entire group, and if the Scout's technique is good enough (utilizing double-jump tactics, accuracy, reaching health, ambush position), an entire squad can be crippled or at best, completely destroyed.

Why I would prefer the Scout for defense over other classes at times is purely because of his design, no other class can perform nearly as well with the tactics I have described simply because they do not possess the speed, swift firepower, or low profile that the Scout has always had. Now, I know when to go Heavy/Medic/Engineer/or any other class, those are common and essential roles often fulfilled. I rarely see another Scout on a defensive team that performs in my manner, and as I mentioned before, a Scout's actions on defense go under the radar and is a niche practice, but makes any strong defense that much more staunch.

i may have been a little pissed from the previous map when we were losing, nobody was communicating, and for some reason, our team decided to split points to capture. i agree fully that scouts are nice, but the amount we had for both maps was far too much. i wasn't dissing the scout, i was just upset the quantity we had.
for that part of Goldrush, 1 scout is the maximum at best, if any. there Are some situations where scout would be great, but we weren't in such a scenario at that moment. it would be OK to be scout ONLY once those sentries are down. We had not yet achieved that goal. I'm sorry that your the one that's being called out, but I kinda expect more from resident clan members. i left that match early too, so i guess you never really got to explain yourself.

If it is not too late, i would not like Malice to be called out. I'm normally a cool guy, but i was extra testy today. I apologize for causing such an uproar, lets just keep this as a reminder that this is OUR server, everyone should play as a team and get onto those that aren't doing such. Give them time to explain their actions, and if nessisary, remove them from the server in order to let more willing team players in. this is just my opinion. Again, I am sorry if this has offended anyone or any clan.

Settle this in PMs.

Originally Posted by Ruukil

I think the point is that the scouts were not being effective. It doesn't matter if they could have, they were not being effective and the game was lost.

Lesson Learned.


Locked.