Thread: Am I the only one who thinks the Enforcer is overpowered?

6 Revolver shots still kills a Sentry. If it's sapped, it will not. The Enforcer isn't a straight upgrade, but given how the playerbase at large isn't observant, it can be called OP for now. I'll still take my Ambassador, though.

Complain about spy being underpowered.
Spy gets new toy that puts him on par with the other classes.
Complain that spy is now overpowered.

Ambassador is a far stronger gun anyway, nerf that first.

Spy hasn't been underpowered for ages. And really, the Ambassador is only stronger if you only land headshots. What annoys me most about the Enforcer is that it used to be that only skilled spies could two-shot light classes with the ambassador, now any spy can do it.

Originally Posted by Derek

Spy hasn't been underpowered for ages. And really, the Ambassador is only stronger if you only land headshots. What annoys me most about the Enforcer is that it used to be that only skilled spies could two-shot light classes with the ambassador, now any spy can do it.

Spy is the most underpowered class in the game, dead ringer or not. I view the enforcer as a much needed and much deserved upgrade for the class, it literally has no combat presence unless you simply outclass your opponents. And if that's the case, why handicap yourself with spy? Why not play soldier instead? As far as the stealth mechanic goes, it's an unreliable gimmick at most. If the other team has their act together, they will shut you down faster than you can say "nerfnow."

Taking a lack of skill into account is foolish. I could call the rocket launcher underpowered because new players can't hit jack, should it be buffed? No reason to prop the enforcer over the ambassador just because the latter needs to hit a specific body part.

Why would you nerf a weapon with a high skill/high risk requirement when the Enforcer has virtually no real downsides and a straight buff?


That's like saying the LL is fine but the DH needs a nerf, it makes zero sense.

I wouldn't. That's the point. Ambassador shouldn't be nerfed, neither should enforcer.

Originally Posted by Watsyurdeal?

That's called countering the class, it's the same as everyone ganging up on a Heavy, or Sentries stopping a Scout cold in his tracks, or staying out of the Pyros range as you pelt him with shots, every class has a weakness that can be exploited.

For Spies, it's simply being aware of him. But that's why Spies have Dead Ringer. Smart use of that watch will allow you to deal with most problems in your way. The exception being a Engineer with a pet Pyro, but that scenario sucks for Medics with Ubers too.


If they really wanted to buff the Spy, they should've reduced the Revolver spread instead of giving him something like the Enforcer.

However, each of those classes has a means of overcoming the counter. A heavy getting ganked can call for his team to help, or simply wait for the uber instead of recklessly charging in. Scouts can avoid the sentry altogether, and the clever ones can even figure out how to break it. Bonk, backed up by a push, is also an excellent option. Pyros have their secondary weapon to utilize, and I've learned the hard way that you can't underestimate a shotgun pyro.

As a spy, you have no real means of overcoming the counter to your class. If people are aware of you, you're going to be hard-pressed to get around that. Dead Ringer at best offers a brief reprieve, but if the spy comes back and the enemy team is still aware of him, he's either dead or ringing again. So that leaves your gun...which is so weak that it takes you an entire extra shot to kill classes with the same health count as you. The Enforcer improves on this by allowing you to 2shot the classes that are 2shotting you, if only just a bit.

Reducing the revolver spread wouldn't do much, I don't think. It's already quite accurate, imo.

I'm not assuming lack of skill. Have you seen some of the spies on TPG? They can be scary, and we have the best players and most communication of any pub I know. The dead ringer is one of the reasons the spies isn't UP anymore, by switching between it and the regular watch the spy can keep the enemy team constantly guessing. Same with switching knives. With the enforcer alone, I think the spy has better 1v1 combat ability than the Engineer, Pyro, Medic, or Sniper. I know these are all support classes, but why should spy be the best support class in combat? Throw in the dead ringer for survivability and he's practically a combat class. You also have to keep in mind that the spy can see enemy health at any range, and with disguise and cloak, he can choose his fights better than any other class, even scouts. This greatly magnifies the effect of the enforcer.

Lastly, Pyro has always been more UP than Spy.

Have I seen the TPG spies? I'm only one of the best soldiers on the server, and that includes pwning the spies. :P E-peen aside, yeah, I know they're scary. Wats here has the dubious honor of being the only spy to have ever successfully stairstabbed me.

Anyway, I don't agree that the dead ringer is an end-all solution to the spy's problems. It's aggravating to deal with, but if you know he's ringing, and you know he escaped, it's a simple matter of staying aware of him and catching him again when he comes back. If he rings again, cool. He's just wasting a player slot at that point.

Switching with the vanilla watch is easy to see through, incidentally. You don't flash when hit with Dead Ringer.

Spy's maximum damage with the enforcer is 72, at point-blank. He has no backup guns. The engineer's shotgun deals 90 damage point-blank, and he has a pistol to back him up. Wrangler engies are also mean. At midrange, the engie averages 65 damage, still a 2HKO. The enforcer averages around 55, iirc. How does the spy manage better combat presence than the engineer, again? The pyro is even stronger, and the needlegun is not to be underestimated. The only match-up I think it really affects is spy vs sniper, and the sniper still has jarate+pissknife.

The spy's ability to see health is at its strongest when equipping the Ambassador, not the Enforcer. You can't snipe somebody with the Enforcer barring a player with no health. Disguising and cloaking are highly transparent once you reveal yourself.

The pyro at least has a shotgun/flare gun. Most pyros are simply too stupid to use it, hence pyro UP. Granted it still IS UP in comparison to heavy, soldier and demoman, but it can go up against scouts and spies comfortably.