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Thread: Accidental ban lift?
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08-29-08, 12:47 AM #21
The Bible is Bullshit.
Originally Posted by Evil
In the so called Divine Plan, everything has not been laid out. Don't forget that every person has the gift of free will. This includes the authors of the Bible and the leaders of the Church who have the ultimate say on how things are interpreted and whether the Bible can be updated and revised.
If a God exists, he rarely intervenes in human affairs. For the most part he lets us figure things out for ourselves. I suppose that's what he wants.
But for a moment, we'll entertain the idea that he doesn't intervene. You mean to tell me that this "all-powerful" divine being, who is all-seeing, all-knowing, and divinely omnipotent, actually permits humans to do all nature of horrible things, both to Him and to each other? Strikes me as though this "god" is pretty fucking lazy, and pretty fucking ignorant for being tasked with over-seeing/controlling an entire world. Smells like "incompetence" to me, although you have to get past the stench of all the bullshit in order to smell it.
He could easily come down and tell everyone to do this or that. I'm sure that he has his reasons for not doing so. Perhaps this is some sort of test. I don't know.
And I'm sure that people who abuse the Bible will get what they deserve. Sooner or later.
Alrighty, let me know when they show up.
Nice try but your example is flawed.
The goal of our court system is to process cases as fast and as accurately as possible. This means that ideally, everyone who testifies will stick to the facts without any exaggeration or fluff. It's dry, it's boring, but it's conveyed that way due to time constraints. Few people, who are not forced or required, view these types of cases.
The exception are the TV court shows. They encourage the litigants to exaggerate and add fluff. Why? It attracts more people because it is more interesting.
And that brings me back to my original point. If people have the option of listening to a court case were a person just sticks to the facts and a TV show where they add in some exaggerations, which are they likely to chose? The TV show by far.
And the Bible has employed the same tactics as the TV shows. If you add in some exaggeration and relatable stories, more people are likely to read it and more importantly - understand it. So, your message reaches more people. And that's the ultimate goal - spreading your important messages to everyone in ways they can understand.
If you cannot grasp that, then consider this: Someone comes to you and tries to convince you to join their cause (the cause being irrelevant in this case). To do so, he tell you a magnificent story (or set of stories) that would captivate any audience. And you believe the story. It promises many wonderful things and asks for relatively little (say, you refuse to eat a certain type of food, or you give up one work day out of the week; something that is an easy price for you to pay). In fact, it's win-win for you to join this individual's cause; there's nothing to lose, and what you can gain is perhaps the best reward ever offered by anyone to anyone. And you accept. You believe this story, and you spread it to others, and they, being so fascinated by it, also join the cause.
You have taken something and embraced it fully, and perhaps even have devoted your life to it. You've raised your children to believe and cherish it, too. But what happens when you finally realize that the story you were told was really just a cover for something else? That you were brought on board something that, had you been told directly, truthfully, factually, what is was, you wouldn't have otherwise cared for? How's that going to make you feel? I know I would feel as though I'd been robbed, among other things.
My point -- if you can grasp it -- is that if you are going to ask people to become involved in something that means a total reshaping of an individual's life, then you tell the story as it is, not something that is designed to just make it look better.
Exaggerations are not important. They're based in truth.
Lies are important. But in the case of the Bible, I think what some may call lies, are really just misunderstandings or inaccuracies resulting from the time period.
How can you force anything into someone's mind? You really can't. A person can act one way, because you force them to, but they may truly think something completely different. You can never know what someone is thinking.
The importance of the first three is clear. You should devote your energy to following one God and one set of teachings. In order to do so, you need to respect your creator. You can't try to hold yourself above him by using derogatory terms. You need to leave time for your body and mind to heal as well as to explore your spiritual side.
While there are good points mixed in with the Commandments (adultery, murder, and so forth), the rest reminds me of a Christian version of legalism, or perhaps Sharial law, just with a look of make up to make it look pretty and to hide its true intent.
It doesn't matter how good something may be. If it is used by certain individuals as a way of controlling others, and if this instrument is being used in a deceptive manner (i.e. the real, factual, no-bullshit story is the only story there is), then it is wrong.
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08-29-08, 11:29 AM #22
The Bible is Bullshit.
Originally Posted by Nuke
When did I say that you should read and remember every post? When did I even say that you should remember that specific post? I even when out of my way to find the specific post and recopy it for you so you would now what I was talking about. :nuts:
I suppose that I've unintentionally unearthed some long-standing insecurities. :lol:
Originally Posted by Nuke
There's supposed to be a divine plan laid out for each of us. If you follow the teachings and make the right choices based on the moral thing to do, the plan will be fulfilled.
We're not talking about the idea of fate where the entire history of humanity has already been set. It's on the individual level where freewill can alter what is "supposed" to occur.
Originally Posted by Nuke
He acts something like a good parent. He sets guidelines but allows us to make mistakes. He also helps us to see and rectify those mistakes.
If he just intervened all the time and prevented us from making mistakes before they happened, no one would learn and grow. And that's the point of all this. To take what he has given us and expand it.
Originally Posted by Nuke
When he needs to intervene, he does.
Originally Posted by Nuke
Originally Posted by Nuke
Originally Posted by Nuke
Originally Posted by Nuke
Originally Posted by Nuke
Now for the giant leap:
Originally Posted by Nuke
The promise has remained the same. You were created by God, God wants you to follow a certain set of guidelines, if you follow the guidelines you will go to a place of eternal bliss.
Originally Posted by Nuke
There are also many parables and other stories that were made up by Jesus and others to teach a lesson. They were never presented as fact. They were just designed to incorporate the traditions and daily life of the people they were told to so they could more easily understand the lesson.
So, why would you feel robbed? Because you don't understand that people 2000 years ago didn't have the technology, skills, and record keeping of today? Or because you can't tell the difference between a story meant to describe a real event and a story made up to teach a lesson?
Originally Posted by Nuke
To go back to an example presented in the original video, the people living during the time didn't know that a wind could come along and quickly dry out a portion of a sea. I didn't even know that until I heard it in the video. They believed it had to be another act of God - and it very well might have. Why couldn't God have intervened through nature to make sure that drying occurred at the exact right time?
If you exaggerate something for entertainment or effect, you're not altering the something in any significant way. What did it matter if Goliath was 20 feet tall or 7? He was much larger than the young David. That's all they wanted to show.
Originally Posted by Nuke
And you keep bringing up that same world: lie. Give me an example of a lie in the Bible that can not be explained by the so-called lie being an exaggeration, a misunderstanding, or an obviously made up story intended to teach a lesson.
Originally Posted by Nuke
Then, all laws are in an insult to humanity. I guess we shouldn't have any laws, aye Nuke? Just let everyone run around doing whatever they want.
More flawed logic.
Originally Posted by Nuke
No one else does have the same position or power over humans. We have only one creator.
It's not the way the words sound. It's what they mean. You can use those words when referring to your creator, you're in essence saying that you have power and control over him. And that's the point. It's not the words - it's that belief that you have the power of a creator.
Are you really too retarded to comprehend this on your own? Damn, this is supposed to be the simple stuff.
Six year olds can get it but Nuke over here is having major trouble. :lol:
Originally Posted by Nuke
Have you ever actually read some of the Qur'an? Or are just ignorant and just believe whatever the media or some loud dipshit says about it?
It is, in fact, much more strict with many more complicated (and what I would argue are useless) procedures than the Bible.
The Bible is and has been used by some individuals for their own selfish objectives. There's no denying that. But so many more people have found peace, strength, and hope through it.
How can something from 2000 years ago be 100% factual? As I said before, pick up a science book from 50, 10, or even 5 years ago and you will find mistakes. Science books, which are supposed to be as factual as you can get, have misunderstandings and inaccuracies that can deceive others. They also commonly use simple explanations and diagrams which often due not fully describe what we know. Isn't that deceptive? Then, why do they do it? Because they want to make them easier for the average person to understand.
So, why should we hold a 2000 year old Bible to these impossible standards that nothing written today can even meet?
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08-30-08, 11:06 PM #23
The Bible is Bullshit.
First note. Not all, and not even most Christians are fundamentalists. The difference between a strong Christian and a strong Christian fundamentalist is that a fundamentalist takes every fundamental idea from the Bible seriously. In Catholicism, we're taught to look at the stories in the OT (Old Testament) and not to take them at face value, but to see the truth in it. Take Adam and Eve for example. We're taught that yes, God did create humans, and yes, humans did seek out knowledge and a means to defy God. But Catholics do not literally believe that Adam and Eve were real people. Or even all their children for that matter.
The story of creation is also up for debate. 7 days to God could have been 7 billion years, who knows. 7 stages of human development perhaps. The fact that human beings, who have 'discovered' or 'created' the idea of God as this all knowing all powerful being, can even begin to describe how God created man is an insult to the idea of God. Who is to say that God did not use the complex process of evolution to create man? Not me, I don't pretend to know how God can do anything. The idea of God is too complex.
The New Testament is what Catholics of today really follow anyway. The Old Testament worked for its time period, but the teachings of Jesus go against the OT.This is X-C. Merged accounts with my old account jAk.
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08-31-08, 02:51 AM #25
The Bible is Bullshit.
The idea of God is too complex.
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08-31-08, 08:18 AM #26
The Bible is Bullshit.
Originally Posted by Evil
:Y:
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