Appear to have been banned

**boltcatch** · 03-16-10, 04:02 PM

Hello,

My in-game name is boltcatch, PID 122389303 . I've played on the TTP BF2 and BF2/PR servers for about 3 years on and off.

A week or two ago, Tarraba Quarry was on. My side (MEC) was getting thoroughly trounced for reasons that were not immediately apparent; I was attempting to defend against enemy infantry capping the two flags closest to our main base, but was steadily pushed back. Eventually we were getting shot up pretty badly by at least 2 full squads of infantry in our main spawn and vehicles right outside the front gate hosing people with MG's.

I grabbed a sniper kit and spawned back at the airfield to attempt to clear out some of the infantry, and found what our problem was. Out of ~45 players, about 15 players on my side were attempting to jump on each other's heads and shove each other out of the area they were expecting the jet to spawn in, inside the hangar. Enemy troops were within small arms range, yet none of these 15 desperate pilot hopefuls were willing to engage the enemy or help in any way, even after I pointed out that the enemy was starting to swarm the airfield. These guys were entirely lost in their own jet-craving world.

There did not appear to be an admin on at the time to address potential issues of idiocy.

Feeling the need to do something desperate and tired of getting spawn raped, I lobbed a frag grenade their way. Casualties ensued, and one of them started screaming in general chat that I had TK'ed him to "steal his jet". I responded that I'd tossed the nade not to steal a plane, (there wasn't one), but because there did not appear to be any way to get through to them over their frantic jockeying and that they weren't doing anyone any good by humping each other in the hangar. At that point I got a message that I had been kicked, and I have not been able to reconnect since.

If this was an admin decision, a warning and/or or ban of a specific duration would have been helpful. Wanton TK'ing or killing for assets is obviously never appropriate (I have never done either of those things). However in many FF enabled environments, sometimes stuff happens (collateral damage, particularly for flag defense or other urgent needs), and other times you just need to break a few eggs to make an omelette when someone(s) on your team is doing something distinctly unhelpful.

I had not seen any rules indicating that there was some sort of zero tolerance on the issue. If there is, then now I know, and given the opportunity to use the servers again I would keep that in mind and follow such rules.

**draco7891** · 03-16-10, 07:07 PM

I am your banning admin.

Originally Posted by boltcatch

Eventually we were getting shot up pretty badly by at least 2 full squads of infantry in our main spawn and vehicles right outside the front gate hosing people with MG's.

I grabbed a sniper kit and spawned back at the airfield to attempt to clear out some of the infantry...

2 full infantry squads, vehicles cutting everyone down, and your first reaction is to spawn in with the sniper kit? Not medic, to revive your fallen teammates; not support, to cut the enemy infantry down; not AT to take out the enemy vehicles? What was the order from your squad leader?

Out of ~45 players, about 15 players on my side were attempting to jump on each other's heads and shove each other out of the area they were expecting the jet to spawn in, inside the hangar.

From the logs:

Code:

22	[OP4]2 Silentkill1978	1	Team	[22:39:04]	HUD_TEXT_CHAT_TEAM7 guys waiting for jets

So independent testimony says that there were only 7 players in the hangars, not 15. The refusal to help out is purely conjectural on your part, without knowing what their orders were or who they were communicating with. You could as easily say they were trying to keep vital team assets from being stolen by the enemy infantry accosting the main.

There did not appear to be an admin on at the time to address potential issues of idiocy.

Again, you would not be here now if there was not an admin on-site, correcting the situation.

Feeling the need to do something desperate and tired of getting spawn raped, I lobbed a frag grenade their way. Casualties ensued, and one of them started screaming in general chat that I had TK'ed him to "steal his jet". I responded that I'd tossed the nade not to steal a plane, (there wasn't one), but because there did not appear to be any way to get through to them over their frantic jockeying and that they weren't doing anyone any good by humping each other in the hangar.

The logs:

Code:

-1	Admin	None	ServerMessage	[22:34:21]	*** SWAPPING TEAMS ***

14	 boltcatch	1	Team	[22:38:55]	HUD_TEXT_CHAT_TEAMhow bout you go fight, idiots, THEY"RE IN THE BASE
22	[OP4]2 Silentkill1978	1	Team	[22:39:04]	HUD_TEXT_CHAT_TEAM7 guys waiting for jets 
-1	Admin	None	ServerMessage	[22:39:11]	TKPUNISH: [WXC] furiouspanda0 punishes boltcatch for a teamkill ([WXC] furiouspanda0 has 1 punishes and 0 forgives)
-1	Admin	None	ServerMessage	[22:39:12]	TKPUNISH: konvick punishes boltcatch for a teamkill ( konvick has 1 punishes and 0 forgives)
4	 konvick	1	Global	[22:39:18]	ADMIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
4	 konvick	1	Global	[22:39:40]	BOLTCATCH HAS TKED US FOR THE BOMBER
14	 boltcatch	1	Global	[22:39:51]	no i didnt
33	[WXC] furiouspanda0	1	Global	[22:39:53]	boltcatch tk for jet
14	 boltcatch	1	Global	[22:40:08]	i did it because SEVEN PEOPLE where humping up and down for it while the enemy is in our base
14	 boltcatch	1	Global	[22:40:12]	i didnt take the bombt
-1	Admin	None	ServerMessage	[22:40:15]	BANNING!!! boltcatch for Team Killing!

However in many FF enabled environments, sometimes stuff happens (collateral damage, particularly for flag defense or other urgent needs), and other times you just need to break a few eggs to make an omelette when someone(s) on your team is doing something distinctly unhelpful.

So it's fine to TK your teammates, just as long as you personally feel justified that doing so somehow helps the team? Is that what you're trying to tell me?

This is the kind of thinking you're going to bring into your unban request, and then you're going to try to turn around and tell me you're a teamplayer and you do it all for the greater good?

I had not seen any rules indicating that there was some sort of zero tolerance on the issue. If there is, then now I know, and given the opportunity to use the servers again I would keep that in mind and follow such rules.

Logs:

Code:

-1	Admin	None	ServerMessage	[22:30:55]	 WARNING ! ! !                Intentional  Tk's will Earn you a  BAN.....

This is the most proximal message to your ban. The message wraps around in the marquee every 13 minutes. Since the logs show you to have been connected for at least 2.5 hours that night, and your own admission that you have played here for many years, the assumption that you have not read this message at least once in that time is staggeringly insulting.

Additionally, the rules:

#4. Abusive conduct cannot be tolerated.

If you are... a team killer... expect to be punished very quickly and harshly.

Things to do that can get you punished, kicked, and/or banned on the server.

#5. Team Kill...

Again, the expectation that a 3-year player has not read the rules at least once is baffling. It's common sense. Teamkilling is not teamplay.

_________________________________________________

So you didn't know it was a rule, you were justified because you thought it was the right thing to do, and there weren't any admins around to see you doing it. And yet, here you are, banned.

You have a ton of explaining to do.

Draco

**boltcatch** · 03-18-10, 08:01 PM

Not really. I didn't mean that it was OK because there wasn't an admin to see it, but because there did not appear to be one there to provide any other solution. No, I had no way of knowing if they were dealing with the issue, but this was not the only problem that day that had gone unaddressed; it was a reasonable guess.

2 full infantry squads, vehicles cutting everyone down, and your first reaction is to spawn in with the sniper kit? Not medic, to revive your fallen teammates; not support, to cut the enemy infantry down; not AT to take out the enemy vehicles? What was the order from your squad leader?

Not everyone is blessed with a cohesive squad, or even enough squads when people start locking them. At some point you have to just say screw it and do what you can. If you honestly think that someone with a support kit will kill more infantry than a sniper kit, well, then I can't help you. The problem at hand wasn't the vehicles (wisely) staying outside of the base providing support, it was the infantry inside it killing us as we spawned.

The refusal to help out is purely conjectural on your part,

It's a lot less conjectural on my part than on yours; I saw it, you didn't.

So it's fine to TK your teammates, just as long as you personally feel justified that doing so somehow helps the team? Is that what you're trying to tell me?

Yes. Absolutely. Players make this decision every day when using direct and indirect high caliber weapons. Commanders do it with artillery. My case is a hell of a lot more ethically dubious, but really depends on the server rules. In my case, I missed that scrolling message - I broke the rule, so I stay banned.

There is nothing "insulting" about a claim not to have seen the message when any one bit of text is not displayed for long - there are other messages going by, and in case you've forgotten people are attempting to fight during all of this. BF2 chat and messages are borderline useless in a busy server.

**draco7891** · 03-19-10, 12:10 AM

Originally Posted by boltcatch

... but because there did not appear to be one there to provide any other solution.

Your "other solution" is calling for an admin in all-chat and/or calling the players in question out and/or taking screenshots and posting them in the Admin Attention Needed thread. Since you have all of one line of chat prior to your ban in the 2.5+ hour time you spent on server, and no other posts on this forum, you failed utterly to exercise anything resembling common sense, good sportsmanship, or teamplayerism. You didn't explore your options, you chose the easiest, most convenient and most personally gratifying resolution to the problem. And that's why you're here.

... but this was not the only problem that day that had gone unaddressed; it was a reasonable guess.

Again, our admins are exceptionally good at their jobs, but we have not yet perfected the art of clairvoyance. If you see a problem, report a problem. Expecting the admins to spend the entirety of their time waiting on you and your personal issues hand-and-foot is both foolhardy and ultimately unrewarding. Even so, the logs at the time of your connection to the server show nothing reported, either by you or other players, that warranted admin action.

Not everyone is blessed with a cohesive squad ... At some point you have to just say screw it and do what you can.

No, but you are blessed with a brain, a microphone and the common sense to use them. If you don't have a cohesive squad, make one. Forge one from the raw player talent at your disposal. The admins will be more than happy to assist you in removing those who cannot follow orders.

A real teamplayer doesn't bitch and whine after the fact over the lot he has been dealt. A teamplayer buckles down and does what is necessary to achieve the goals set for him. A punk throws his hands up into the air, gives up without a fight and meanders along, skimming his enjoyment off the work of others, expecting a perfect playing experience with zero effort on his part.

So which are you?

... or even enough squads when people start locking them.

Again, if you feel that players are abusing the squad system by forming locked or one-man squads, make some noise. While the players may deliberately be in that situation by their CO's orders, very often it's used as lip service to avoid the squad rule. Make an effort and be rewarded, or remain silent and accept the consequences.

It's a lot less conjectural on my part than on yours; I saw it, you didn't.

Again, you are assuming something. Something which, in this case, is completely false. There's a good reason why our admins operate in anonymity.

So it's fine to TK your teammates, just as long as you personally feel justified that doing so somehow helps the team? Is that what you're trying to tell me?

Yes. Absolutely. ... My case is a hell of a lot more ethically dubious, but really depends on the server rules.

Absolutely incorrect. Intentional teamkilling is never permitted, no matter the circumstances, type or duration. It doesn't even have to be a rule, common sense dictates that killing your own team necessarily hurts that team's effort to accomplish their overarching goals.

Teamkilling is not teamplay. Plain and simple.

There is nothing "insulting" about a claim not to have seen the message when any one bit of text is not displayed for long - there are other messages going by, and in case you've forgotten people are attempting to fight during all of this. BF2 chat and messages are borderline useless in a busy server.

It is insulting that you will in one breath claim to be a 3-year veteran of our server, and in the next claim total ignorance of the server rules (and with a healthy disdain for common sense and common decency, to boot).

Further, you claim to play PR as well; PR is a decidely slower-paced game than vanilla, and yet the same message scrolls by at the same interval on that server as well.

Are you honestly going to come to us and try to pass off the story that a multi-year veteran does not in any way know one of the most basic rules of our server (or of any other, really)? Do you think I'm stupid enough to swallow that kind of bullshit?

_________________________________________________

I've put your vote to the BF2 admins, which will take no more than 3 days, but probably much less for you. Check this thread for the results.

Draco