Thread: Sniper?

Originally Posted by ...bigdog...

So....like I said......you can justify the usefullness and value of a sniper when you put conditions upon the game, such as the absence of vehicles, or on particular low-vehicle city maps. If TTP was a city-map no vehicle server.....then assault and snipers would rule the day.

Let's not forget that a sniper in a vehicle is effectively identical to an assault in a vehicle. Put a sniper in a walker and no one cares what his main weapon is. Vehicles add an entirely different dimension to combat and 'circumstances' make up EVERYTHING about the game, leaving them out makes any question non-sensical. Unless you have the NS infantry sonar, a support in a vehicle is the same. Ditto the engineer, particularly if he isn't bright enough to put his radar down on the hull before jumping in and even if he does, another engineer who happens NOT to be in a vehicle is just as invisible as anyone else if he's not front and center on the hud of the driver.

Vehicles are the great equalizer, and I really ain't interested in comparing vehicle combat to infantry combat. It's a mixed field most of the time, and NO one suggested that the snipers I posit as being the guardians of any particular silo or flag couldn't ALSO be in walkers or tanks or apcs or whathave you. A tank is after all little more than a vehicular sniper. I'm not really interested in making specific scenarios and hashing out the details with you; this question was simply to find out what others think, and to offer my own opinion, on the merits of the class.

You and I disagree with the efficacy of the sniper tree in the recon class and that's fine. I successfully defended the flag at Main square at Remagen against a full squad solo as a sniper because I had time to prepare the field earlier yesterday evening. Two kills with APM's, two headshots, a kill with RDX, and a pistol finished the job. I almost had to stop and smoke a cigar afterward. Whether you believe THAT or not isn't my concern. It was simply serendipity that I was able to bear out my own assertions, at least to my own satisfaction, so soon after making them. I'm sure you and I could go round and round on this but that's not my goal here. I'm not interested in having an adversarial relationship with you, bigdog. I'm in your squad I'll spawn what you ask for and follow your orders, and I'd expect the same from you when you're in my squad.

The question of the efficacy of the class though is of course dependent on variables beyond control, such as whether the flag a sniper is defending is being attacked by infantry or a vehicle convoy, and what armaments the sniper himself may have at his disposal to deal with whatever threats come his way. When speaking of the merits of the class itself though, it does most good to compare apples to apples, and insofar as THAT measure is applied, those observations I made earlier stand as my opinion.

I don't disagree with you, Blackhawk. A vehicle is a very difficult obstacle for any sniper to overcome... what I'm saying is, that would go for support or assault defending a flag as well. As a matter of fact, either of those classes is even MORE helpless than a sniper would be. All a support can do is emp them and hope someone shows up to save their ass. An assault... can die.

What I was talking about was the possibility that any sniper might also have a vehicle available. As well, on most maps, unless it's a uav, a sniper's roost if well chosen will be well outside the range of both a vehicles hud and any infantry sonar placed near the point to be defended.

However correct you may be on Verdun you have the giant wall with sniper towers every 100ft which are spots which can easily see every silo in close proximity to the wall. These towers have a excellent view of "Silo 5" and can headshot a engineer with a blind fold on so that crosses out the possiblity of having nearly as many roller mines to defend the silo.

Lies. Engineers (like me) at silo 5 are hardly, if ever, suppressed by long range sniper fire. And even if we were, we're enclosed within plenty of high walls and buildings, giving us unlimited cover from small arms and sniper fire. I can toss roller's OVER the wall, around the wall, and into all main entrances into that silo. I hold the silo, and the sniper does nothing to stop me. I testify to this, as everyone knows, me, and my squad, hold silo 5 every damn time we play that map. We hold it, because short of a 3 squad army, nothing can keep us from doing so. Most especially sniper related casualties......shoot us all you want...we still spawn....we still lay rollers.....we still have inf and armor sonars....we still win.

We could argue all day about the snipers role in squad. Snipers are "ghosts , they are "deadly", if you put them to the test, they will take you out in armor(RDX) or in person.

then let's test the theory. snipers....come and find me. You know where I am......I'm at the one silo both teams need. So come and take it from me, or try and keep me from taking it. One of us is right........so let's see which one it is.

RDX.......you actually have to be NEAR me to RDX me. And if you're going to let me, and my squad, within distance of yourself to RDX my mech......well guess what.......you just lost your silo. This isn't about "ohhh pwnage" and "I'm better than bigdog".....this is about tactics, and losing. If cebelius is right.....check out his win ratio.......

and then check me and sjt's. We win....because we make a difference. We hold the one thing that matters (ciritical silo, or enemy titan). We take the one flag they needed (EU base on gibraltar or Outpost on berlin). And the snipers that were there.....if they did anything.....merely dropped a few of us in the process. Killing people, and winning.....are two different things. Snipers.....by definition.....kill individuals. Losing the outpost or EU base......kills the team.

Let's not forget that a sniper in a vehicle is effectively identical to an assault in a vehicle. Put a sniper in a walker and no one cares what his main weapon is.

As a squad, support, engineers, and medics in vehicles gives MOBILE reload, heal, and repair points IMMUNE from snipers laying around waiting for you to stand still and do it on foot. 2 snipers in a mech is a mech. Me and sjt in a mech are a mobile supply point, an engineer repair station, and a mech.

which is better? Which makes more of a difference? .......no question.

You and I disagree with the efficacy of the sniper tree in the recon class and that's fine. I successfully defended the flag at Main square at Remagen against a full squad solo as a sniper because I had time to prepare the field earlier yesterday evening. Two kills with APM's, two headshots, a kill with RDX, and a pistol finished the job. I almost had to stop and smoke a cigar afterward. Whether you believe THAT or not isn't my concern. It was simply serendipity that I was able to bear out my own assertions, at least to my own satisfaction, so soon after making them. I'm sure you and I could go round and round on this but that's not my goal here. ....
The question of the efficacy of the class though is of course dependent on variables beyond control, such as whether the flag a sniper is defending is being attacked by infantry or a vehicle convoy, and what armaments the sniper himself may have at his disposal to deal with whatever threats come his way. When speaking of the merits of the class itself though, it does most good to compare apples to apples, and insofar as THAT measure is applied, those observations I made earlier stand as my opinion.

Once again....an anecdotal instance of killing a squad full of walking, oblivious chumps. had they been in a jeep, or a jetski, or a mech.....or anything other than on foot......the situation likely, if not a vast majority of the time, would not be in your favor. And again......the mere idea that conditions have to be placed for usefullness to be found in the snipers indicates that they are merely a niche class, and only valueable when these conditions are met.

When is mechanized squad conditioned to be valueable? How about a Support/medic/engineer hybrid squad? How about even a tag team duo of support/engineer in a lone tank or mech? What conditions are going to prevent them from being effective, other than other vehicles and combat, which ALL classes are subject to, and thus is a constant part of the equation.

If this is a debate about apples and apples....then fine. Except one apple has 10X as many conditions and variables that have to be met before it can be eaten, and another 10 more conditions before it can be enjoyed. the other apple......is ready to serve.

Originally Posted by Blackhawkc99

You really want to test the snipers. Next time your on I will put it to the test and see if your so called mobile squad can handle the pressure of a long range deadly sniper rifle.

I'll team with you on that. Two honed snipers against bd's squad? I'd be willing to wager on that outcome.