Thread: Hacks on the BF2 server? or just a glitch in the game?

Originally Posted by EeelEeet

Its not about evening the playing field! Its about setting an example. Karon Beshinivsky (sorry if that is spelt wrong) was killed by one of these said gunmen. However her partner who was also shot survived. It was only down to the body armor unreliability that the Police Officer died. Get guns of the streets and police wont need them. I understand Americans have a different view on things due to that Ammendment that gave them the right to own a gun, but not wave it around in public or fire it (please correct if this is wrong) but then again, Americans are more right wing than Britain so of course the views will differ.

wouldn't things be great if we could all live in your little dream world! you will never get all the guns off the streets and if you believe such a thing could ever be accomplished then you are delusional...people have this crazy knack for acquiring and hiding contraband if they really want it...the criminals who use weapons in a destructive manner don't really care about your laws and surely won't just stop smuggling them...arms trafficing is a multi-billion dollar a year industry and i don't see that just stopping...so until then lets be a little more reasonable and provide protective measures...BTW, you can't blame the body armor, that stuff is not meant for direct shots at close range or high-powered shots, it is for glancing shots in a heated ambush...its a last resort protective measure not invincibility

It is all chavs what do it, I do not see the point in them, they think they are hard with guns and gangs but 1 on 1 and there nothing.

*-D13 @LL CH@V5-* PL3@5E3 LOL.

Originally Posted by EeelEeet

We all know its more than difficult for Britain to police its borders, all you need is a boat. Im talking about bringing people round to the persuasion that guns are bad.

How? These people have usually been raised without the values of wider society, their sub-culture is hardly conductive to anti-gun propaganda.

To just about everyone here:
Stop noting the problems, ive already said its the culture that forces the few to get guns and then more and more people feel the need to arm themselves incase they get attacked, im talking about solving it, what could be done?

Suprisingly dj-lil-ste is the most right, its the lower class familys who often turn to crime and violence to get through, like mugging for example. Mugging becomes alot easier when you have a gun.

1 point to all the Americans telling me that the police need guns. Just remember. In America your actually allowed to have a gun so more people have them and commit crimes with them. A segment of all robbery's, muggings and crimes with guns used as "bargaining tools" are used with replica guns over here. A teenager was shot for aiming his replica gun at a police officer a few years back. Im still against all cops being armed.

As with private citizens, I would think the same stands for police. It is better to have a gun, and not need it, then to need a gun, and not have it.

As far as crime goes, my location is not to different then any other rural area of the US with the exception that I reside in prime hunting grounds, and we have more gun's per person then most of the country, save North Dakota and a few others. Damn near everyone around here owns either a rifle or a pistol, or both. Yet we haven’t had a significant gun crime here in my county for ages (years), in fact all of South Dakota, has relatively few gun crimes per year. So how is this so when the populace here have access to massive ammounts of firearms?

Simple answer: Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

In SD all you need to do for a CP, is take a single page application at the sheriffs office and presto, five minutes later you can carry a concealed gun for 7 years thereafter? I've taken the test, nearly all my associates have as well, as I'm sure much of the state has as well. Why arent we offing each other off in record numbers at gas stations and grocery stores? Simple. people kill people, the guns themselves are just an extension of those people. If you have problems with guns crimes, dont look at your guns, or gun laws, look at your people.

Overall what ever happens in the UK is irrelevant to me. I live in the United States, South Dakota in fact, and whether or not a cop is armed, or is not armed over there, has no bearing whatsoever on me or my surrounding world. What I do know, is that many, many people here sleep safer knowing that the police carry enough heat to take down anyone who thinks this world is a video game, or anyone who tries to do whatever they want with out consequences.

Sedistix. The thing is, you live in the rural country side. Gun crime only appears in inner city places in lower class society. The people in your community are comfortable with guns and people with guns, not because they have one to prevent attacks, because they know people wont draw on them when they turn there back. Also, you shoudn't consider other countries problems irrelevant, we dont. Anything that happens in America inevitably comes over here anyway.

Sure south Dakota is rural, but that doesn’t mean it should have less crime South Dakota is a poor state, very little is done here. I think rather then judging the united states by a few major cities you should understand it’s not all like downtown LA at 3am.

During the summer there is a bikers rally in South Dakota, where a small town called Sturgis swells over one hundred percent. Hundreds of thousands of out-a-stater bikers come here, not because south Dakota is a great place to be, but because of a huge party.

So here we have an annual party, where a town of 3,500 swells to well over 200,000+ every single year. In 2000 which was the 60th anniversary there was over 600,000 in attendance at this party, and only 10 rally related deaths 6 of which were gun related. For the last few years the attendance has stuck steady at 500,000. This is a yearly party consisting mainly of bikers, and alcohol drinking people from all across the nation, yet the felony gun crimes, or murders statistics for this huge scene each and every year, are less then ten, and in many of these rally related deaths, gun crimes are not even half a dozen (car accidents). Think about it… An annual party of motor heads, alcohol, and music that brings in over half a million people every year, consisting mainly of people from other states, and next to no gun crimes... (I met a guy who came to the US from Germany just for the rally one year…. I also remember a place called the buffalo chip beer garden, which was basically a concert /beer pit where the police weren’t even allowed on the property because its privately owned land, used for buffalo grazing of course..

Spare us the people = crime or the poverty = crime. South dakota has some of the poorest location in all of the United States. In fact it has three of the poorest counties in all of the country.

Sturgis Motorcycle Rally 2006


Instead of listening to me rambling on about poor old backwoods south dakota, look into some statistical data compiled by the FBI here or on your own.

Violent crime rates are highest overall in states with laws severely limiting or prohibiting the carrying of concealed firearms for self-defense.

The total Violent Crime Rate is 26% higher in the gun restrictive states (798.3 per 100,000 pop.) than in the less restrictive states (631.6 per 100,000).

The Robbery Rate is 58% higher in the gun restrictive states (289.7 per 100,000) than in the less restrictive states (183.1 per 100,000).

Of 14,000 CCW licensees in Oregon, only 4 (0.03%) were convicted of the criminal (not necessarily violent) use or possession of a firearm.

Americans use firearms for self-defense more than 2.1 million times annually.

99.9% of self-defense firearms uses do not result in fatal shootings of criminals, an important factor ignored in certain "studies" that are used to claim that guns are more often misused than used for self-protection. Of incarcerated felons surveyed by the Department of Justice, 34% have been driven away, wounded, or captured by armed citizens; 40% have decided against committing crimes for fear their would-be victims were armed.

- FBI Uniform Crime Reports

Originally Posted by Baron Von Dan3

As far as I know, there are only two police forces in the entire world that doesn't carry firearms, and that is UK's and Norway's police forces. And even though I'm not that in to the details in the subject it seems to work. How many police officers lose their life each year in UK? I know in Norway they have had one officer killed in the last 10 years.
And that was a Swede who killed him.
I know the Danish and the Swedish police officers are not allowed to walk in the streets without fire arms.
And for me, who is an old vet of the Swedish police force happens to know that the Swedish police force is one of the most heavily armed police forces in Europe.

I concur, you don't see many gun crimes in Sweden. Yet the police have plenty of firepower. Would a criminal want to get into a shootout with cops?

Someday you kiddies will realize owning guns isn't about being tough and "chavy".

Although most of the more ignorant people will dismiss the site as soon as they see it, I will post the link: Fight, Flight or Surrender?

Ah where was I...

Originally Posted by EeelEeet

To just about everyone here:
Stop noting the problems, ive already said its the culture that forces the few to get guns and then more and more people feel the need to arm themselves incase they get attacked, im talking about solving it, what could be done?

Well it can be argued that the culture forms as a by-product of deprivation however even some of the most deprived people these days enjoy a relatively high standard of life compared to those who lived in the past and didn't turn to crime. The key issue would seem to be relative deprivation, TV and the like is always showing people things that they can't have, they become indoctrinated with the success icons that they cannot obtain by legitimate means so they turn to different areas to gain a thrill or success.
Or so that theory tends to go.
In that light it's a problem that's essentially impossible to fix since there's always going to be the haves and have-nots. The only solution there would be communism, but we all know that's never going to work, humanity being what it is.
China seemed to find a way around this for a time by its indoctrination of people into viewing conventional or western signs of success as undesirable. However this resulted in extreme violence towards those who displayed such signs for a short period and the systematic oppression and persecution of a reasonably large portion of the population in order to support a few in power. Hardly the most desirable outcomes.

If you wanted to fix it culturally I suppose you'd have to increase people’s connection to the morals of wider society until it outweighed their deviant impulses.

In the past this was done with things like religion and parenting, 'Thou shalt not kill,' for example. To this day those things remain for some people, good parenting obviously plays an important part in the formation of a child's connection to society though the necessity of religion is an often debated subject and one I would tend to take the other side on.
Just the same when people had the idea that an invisible man was hanging over them ready to torture them forever they were less likely to commit crimes.
Thanks to the welfare state even low life filth can have children and set about destroying their minds and a large percentage of the violent crime does come from people of poorer backgrounds. This is probably due to a number of factors such as the low quality of schooling in the area, poor business investment and the possibility of bad parenting.

Later it was done through such things as education and to a lesser extent through the media, the problem with that is that the government, (thankfully,) does not dictate to a great degree what goes into the media and the things that tend to go in there don't encourage conformity to a cultural norm so much anymore.
Educationally the system while encouraging conformity in a lot of people can have quite the opposite effect in a minority, and a lot of people simply drop out of the system anyway. Those who stay in it and fail to attain almost inevitably have a difficult time in later life or fall prey to the aforementioned alternate methods of sucess.

Then again you don't get this sort of thing in countries like Sweden that often, but it can be argued that they've got a more integrated society for all that it's geographical separation is in some cases much larger. It's ironic that having one of the highest population densities on Earth our society is so poorly integrated.

Better schooling and business investment would go a way towards fixing a lot of these problems, removing a lot of the benefits system may also help since it's often a crutch to lazy people rather than a real help to the deserving. Religious indoctrination and tighter control of the media could help though, I'd rather we didn't do that considering how corrupt governments tend to be.

Cloward and Ohlin (1961) provided a development of these basic ideas to try and explain the different types of crime in terms of oppourtunity structure. Basically stating that in areas where there was a pattern of adult crime developing criminals were provided with an illegitimate oppourtunity, 'structure.' The criminals were able to suceed at things such as theft and fraud and so developed within this structure a utilitarian crime pattern (a pattern of crime focused on material rewards.)
In other areas where there was a high transient population factor or other lack of real organised adult crime the developing criminals were denied access to even this illegitimate means of sucess and so developed a lot of gang violence in order to release their anger.
In light of Cloward and Ohlin's work it may be the case that the police should leave some adult crime untouched in order to promote less violent types of crime.

Basically you have to change what people believe, but in order to do that you have to have a lever on their sub-culture and at the moment we don't have that. Heck the only connection most of these people get to wider society is through music, tv and the like.

Then again there's the other approach: Make crime something with consequences again. Prison should consist of: 'Here's a small concrete cell with a hole to shit in in the corner and a hard bed with a crapy foam mattress, showers are once a week. Classes are available should you finally decide to make something of yourself. Enjoy the next five years of your life.' Bet offence figures would drop after that.

Of course a combination of all these things would be best and in the short term costly and ineffective. With the money saved from welfare we could improve schools and since not so many people would be on welfare they'd have to work if they wanted to live which would improve the economy and provide even more money to improve the schools, (notice how many shitty little jobs go to migrant workers because the people here just don't want them?) People can't commit that many crimes while they're at work or they get screwed which would help a lot when people couldn't afford to lose their jobs.
Eventually areas would improve promoting business investment spurned on by the rise in the economy and falling crime. We might even be able to cut back on taxes a bit and the improved prison system would provide a stronger deterrent.

But that's all long term and you wouldn't really see a return for a good ten or twenty years, possibly even longer. Personally I don't think it's an approach that's ever going to be tried. Guns themselves aren't a problem, plenty of people handle them responsibly, nor is the culture of fear and respect that starts to develop really, it's the structure that allows that culture to develop that's the problem - solving that's a long term goal, and it's a rare government that actually thinks in the long term beyond screwing over the next people to get into power in the hopes they can swing the election after that.
Realistically we're probably only going to get short term solutions like arming officers and a few variations in sentencing law, they're what makes sense for a short term government. Vote winners if you will.

Originally Posted by EeelEeet

A teenager was shot for aiming his replica gun at a police officer a few years back.

Natural selection is a beautiful thing at times.