Thread: EOD bot

Originally Posted by Tenrou

karlx using EOD bot while his team had one flag and was getting dominated today on highway. In fact all I ever see him do is come on our server to troll with that crap. If his team is winning I don't give a damn, but when your team is getting gang raped and all your doing is EOD driving that's bullshit. It's all he does now and I'm fucking tired of his non team play attitude when he's on TPG server.

Originally Posted by cornfuse

I'm sorry, but on what grounds is the EOD bot a non-teamplay/trolling device? Because, to me, there are numerous advantages.

-Distracts enemy fire

This makes the enemy more vulnerable. While numerous enemies are distracted by firing at the bot, friendlies can kill enemies off, pick up ground, or flank the other team entirely. I have, on numerous occasions, simply driven my bot down the middle of an open street with the sole intention of forcing enemies out of their cubbyholes in order to expose them to friendlies working picks just behind my bot. This also makes it a great point option when your squad is approaching a flag with unknown defenses, as it will usually draw out any hidden surprises.

-Kills enemies

When the bot goes unnoticed or is purposely ignored, the same effect as above can be accomplished by simply torching the enemy if the driver of the bot is proficient enough to accomplish it. If you take out the enemies working certain picks and/or choke points, you allow your troops to move up.

-Choke point multiplier

Plenty of BF3 maps come down to small choke points with a limited number of pick points available for a surplus of players. Often these pick points become redundant because there are so many friendlies in the same area. Sometimes there are so many players that it actually begins to have a negative effect. The bot allows you to add another killing element that can clear additional lanes and not congest the pick point.

-Manual MAV abilities

While doing all this, you can also spot enemies just like any soldier can. Essentially, a manual MAV (minus the whole flying thing, of course).

-Kills vehicles

As an anti-armor device, it is debatable that the bot is the best option in medium and small sized maps. The bot has a very low profile and can move quickly, which I have found often makes armor simply overlook it, even when the armor consists of a three-man team. Once you get up close, it is almost a guarantee that, at the very least, you will get the armor to back off your troops. Usually it will become disabled, but you will straight up kill the armor quite frequently also. With the amount of good tank drivers/teams on this server, a map can be turned by simply dictating the enemy armor's lifespan. On its own, the bot is excellent at accomplishing this on a full-time (and even part-time) basis. When using the bot in conjunction with friendly AT and/or tank(s), you will usually win those localized armor battles.

-Repairs vehicles

The defense vehicle capabilities of the bot can be just as important as the offensive ones. You can torch the enemy armor to death, then turn around and follow your own armor in and make sure he stays and full health, allowing him to carve open a path for friendlies.

-Offensive spawn point

Plenty of squads meet their demise because the SL was over-aggressive (I am guilty myself). The bot allows the SL to move up and/or flank behind enemy lines and establish a safe, effective spawn-point for his squad-mates while still contributing towards their offensive efforts (ie, the robot point man previously mentioned).

-Defend flags while attacking

Many teams fail because they get obsessed with flag-hopping. With the bot, you can set up shop near a flag your team cannot afford to lose and still help the push forward towards a second flag.

-No re-spawn time

Fairly self-explanatory, but a huge advantage. 0 seconds vs 15 seconds often makes the difference.

-Zero ticket cost

Probably the greatest perk of all. You can send out 5,10, or 100 bots. Then can all be destroyed at some point. Your team will not lose a single ticket. You can make large contributions towards your team's efforts without the direct negative effect on the scoreboard.



All that being said, the bot does have its downside. You cannot shoot – you have to use the torch, which means you are going to have to pretty much hug everything in order to kill it. The bot cannot cap the points itself; it will require squad/team assistance. And uneven terrain will severely hinder the bot's mobility relative to that of a soldier.

I'm sure there are other downsides as well. But every weapon has its downsides. That does not invalidate their use on the battlefield, nor should it invalidate the use of the bot. In the particular round mentioned, I think the use of the bot was more than justified.

I was using the bot as a sort of “free first life”. I would spawn, deploy it, send it forward down a lane I wanted to advance, and attempt to clear the lane a bit. Once the bot died, I would attempt to advance through the lane. The 20/32 M4A1 kills and 13 deaths (Battle Report - Battlelog / Battlefield 3 ) should be evidence of enough that using the bot was far from my only method of approach.

And this, to me anyway, is sort of the kicker. If I could play that round over again, I would have used the bot more. I would have set up shop in a safe little corner and sent bot after bot after the armor. Both pieces of armor were pinching the high side of the map. This essentially negated a large avenue of escape for my team. Since the armor was so far back of A, it was also extremely difficult for our team to get rid of them through traditional means. We were being funneled into the buildings on the high side and down to the lower road. Both of these avenues were being sealed off extremely well by the enemy infantry, who had every angle covered. If I could have destroyed or simply forced that armor to momentarily retreat, we could have quickly advanced by punching through that hole for the short time it was open via our vehicles or smoke. Another option would have been to stretch the enemy defense towards that open hole in an attempt to thin it out the lines for another squad elsewhere. But regardless of how we could of hypothetically proceeded, I think I actually underutilized the bot that round.

Finally, I'd like to say that I'm actually quite shocked that I've been compelled to come onto the forums to defend the use of a weapon in this game due to the negativity directed at my game-play from some of the regulars in game and this post. I've always thought that one of the great things about TPG is that everything on the battlefield is fair game. Rules are not made up to prop up a certain play-style at the expense of others like you see with no attacking uncaps, no M320, etc... rules on other servers.

I would be disappointed if there is a rule like this in existence/development on the TPG BF3 server. If there is, I'd like to ask for an admin response via this thread (or another thread if this one gets too off topic) or a PM on the exact legality of EOD bot use on the TPG server. I would like to continue the use of the bot on this server, but if it is deemed to be against the rules, I will oblige.

Thanks folks.
Karlx3

Originally Posted by schmobs

Hell if EODs get banned or discouraged, the same should apply on all sniper kits, no matter if they push objectives or not, because the have the potential not to push those objectives with weapons that can be used from a distance.





Tenrou, I believe your argument is fundamentally flawed. The rule shouldn't be "PUSH THE OBJECTIVE OR DIE TRYING" it should simply be "PUSH THE OBJECTIVE", because if everyone died trying the team/squad would never get any closer to the objective. Now, with that in mind, we can debate the definition of said rule all you like.

My 2¢...

Schmo

Originally Posted by cornfuse

“Push the objective of die trying”, while I strongly agree with at the team scale, is essentially the antithesis of teamwork with regards to the individual. Teams that have every single person doing the exact same thing usually lose unless they are flat out more skilled than the other team. I have seen plenty of teams fail because they panicked when they got down to one flag. Everybody decides to rush to the nearest flag, and what happens? The enemy is just waiting for it. They mow down the entire rush and counter-rush the other team's flag. Cap out. Game over.

Support roles are necessary to facilitate controlled rushes on enemy flags. This is much more effective and much more teamwork-oriented then having everybody blindly rush ahead into the mist. And just because somebody is playing a support role and not personally “push(ing) the objective” does not mean that they are not being a team-player. They are attempting to make life easier for the boots up front, and as a guy who has played the latter role plenty of times, having the right guys backing you up means the world. You need the right amount of people fulfilling the right types of roles in order for your team to have its best chance of succeeding, and limiting the definition of teamwork to be inclusive of only the front line roles is dishonest at best.

I want to make it clear that I am not excusing people who do simply sit back because they could care less about the rest of the team. Those people do exist. But to punish the ones who are playing behind the lines with the genuine intention of trying to help their fellow teammates seems preposterous.



Short note: Of course plenty of the benefits can be found outside of the bot. You can say that about every tool available in the game. But the specific combination of benefits is what makes each item unique and valuable.

Originally Posted by SourceSkills

I am going to have to agree with Tenrou for once. I am sorry but I simply cannot see the difference between the two versions of that rule lol. I also can see why the sniper kit may bare a resemblance to the EOD bot tactic but at least a sniper can be beneficial to your team by bypassing the other teams lines for flag captures via the beacon. Not only that but strap on a PDW or a shotgun to that sniper and he is instantly an effective front line soldier. An EOD bot still has no value on the ground next to a flag you don't have. You need boots on the ground and all the things an EOD bot does can be easily replicated by the same kit you run with to get the EOD bot. I do it all the time and it is very effective.

If your team is doing poorly there is no excuse to keep using the EOD bot. And for all those will undoubtedly ask this question. Am I mad that I have been killed by the stupid thing multiple times? Yes and who wouldn't be but that doesn't matter. What matters is the team and you do nothing but helping your own KDR when this situation occurs and believe me this wasn't the first time this has happened.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note II

I'm going make this SUPER CLEAR. I'm not saying ban/kick people for using an EOD bot. I'm saying that all the crap that Karl just spewed about its so called "advantages" are the same crap a sniper sitting in base would say when his team is capped out as well. Do you all think it's just a huge anomaly that when a team gets capped out suddenly the team becomes 1/2 snipers? No they don't want push flags anymore and would rather save their KDR and take pot shots at the enemy. That is essentially what Karl was doing in the EOD bot. When you have 1 to no flags you should be attacking an objective not running around in an EOD bot looking for kills. Kill with your damn rifle and get on the objective and help cap it out. Also Karlx is an exceptionally good player. His team on Highway could have benefited more from him as soldier than a CQC EOD bot. The fact is I can't read his mind, but perceptions a bitch and when I see player when his team is getting raped suddenly go sniper in base or EOD bot it screams KDR saving. If 1/2 your team did what you just said "I'm support the push with my EOD" your team would be just as effective as a team with 1/2 bolt action high power snipers. We have seen how effect that is at breaking a stalemate... The fact is you need be near the objective to get it. So when you do make those kills you can start effecting the shift of flag capture immediately.

Regs should be setting the example when comes to the hard choices which is pushing a flag till the last ticket. Not sitting in base "killing to help others push." If you really care about preforming a support roll pull out a MAV and help your team spot enemies way more effectively than EOD bot plus find weak lanes that your team may be able to escape. Also as recon you can set beacon and still push a flag so your team can have that safe spawn point without being a man down.

I didn't want get personal but I've got to say I expect more from you Karl. Jamster and V24 don't have anywhere near the talent you have, but the are some the hardest working players on TPG. I've seen them look down at cap out and push for an objective until it was game over. Not sit in base and get kills and call it helping the team push. Get out you damn EOD bot in those cases and be an example. As I said 4x before you have the majority of flags and want go EOD bot it up that is no damn problem. Your team can't afford to have talented player though doing this when they are getting bled out.

Killing isn't helping your team. If everyone pulled out an EOD bot or bolt action and sniped/EOD from base you still end up with 0 flags. By time you get away from you base the enemy is respawn and you back at square one. Your chances if everyone went medic and engie for instances has a much better chance to get flag while pushing. If you care about winning then you want the tactic that gives you the best chance. Sitting is base does nothing to help your team even if your killing enemy team members.

My opinion... as posted elsewhere where it is being discussed...

It has it's uses. But if the team is down, you'd best be doing your best to cap flags. And you can't do that with the eod bot. It's the same as having 5 snipers in a squad in bf2 with three tanks surrounding you. SOMEONE best put their damn favorite toy away and pull out an SRAW and help the team clear the armor. EOD bot is the same way. Your team is down to one flag... put the fucking bot in your backpack and plant your ass on a flag until your team is in a position where you can play your little "I'm a transformer!" game again.[

Originally Posted by cornfuse

The bot was not being used from the main like the snipers you continue to reference.



I didn't start using the bot once we were down to one flag. I was using it in the same manner the entire round.



Of course. Ref:





Again, this is the third time I believe, but it is not one specific ability that defines any tool. The MAV can't kill/repair armor. The beacon is loud, can't defend itself, and removes my AT capabilities.



And I think that the bleed being the defining characteristic of when a bot becomes a non-teamplay device is ridiculous.



Now this is only my third post on the matter and the argument has already been reduced to the repetition of the same points. I do not think I will be addressing it any further. I just need a CLEAR ruling on the EXACT legality of the EOD bot. I expect I will not like it, but I will comply 100%. If it is as ambiguous as it was before this thread was created, I can easily see myself in a situation where I feel I am completely within the rules of TPG but an admin sees the exact opposite. Is that something that could be arranged?

I think you got your answer from Kanati.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note II

I am not the sole arbiter and I wouldn't consider my viewpoint the only, or best one. But for now it's the only one from a high admin. We will discuss it further among the admins.