Thread: RE: Priming and Pistols

Originally Posted by WolverineBrother

I will throw my two cents in on Rangers post. Not so much about stacking while priming especially, but about improving as a player.

I think that getting owned by better players is completely undervalued in the BF4 population at large. So we join on friend because it is comfortable. I used to do that, but now I love playing against Allane. Not because I don't like him, and particularly enjoy killing him for personal reasons, on the contrary, I always enjoy playing with him. But because playing against Allane on low pop is a fantastic learning opportunity. Everytime he kills me, I take a moment and let him teach me how he killed me. And since he has killed me hundreds of times, he has taught me an incredible amount. About positioning, movement, reading the map, the value of quick aim and recoil control/spread management. These lessons cannot be learned by playing in his squad.

I used to go 1-10 against him, now I can get close to breaking even when I am focused and alert. Because I have learned how he plays. And this benefits me not only going up against him, but other skilled players as well.

So if you want to improve (and I think we all do, down deep), step out of your comfort zone, focus, analyze, and let the better players teach you when they kill you.

In short, not stacking, and playing against the regs, will make you a better player. It might sting a little from time to time, but I think it is worth it.

I totally agree. Which is why I made the distinction between "stacking", which I could care less about, and if you go back and reread all my comments on the matter would be reaffirmed. Because you're right, playing against the better players and getting owned teaches you how to play. And even the top players play differently so going up against them is, as I'll say again, a great way to get better yourself.

However... we're talking about priming. To me, the concept behind priming is to get people on so the server can get going. Improving yourself if you get placed against a better player while priming is one thing. It's another altogether to watch as good players move themselves over to one side so they can play with their clan mate. Normally, I wouldn't care, but when I watch 8 random players join, then leave, after getting their ass handed to them, is not ideal either. The other night (and I can't remember the players), we had 4 guys on side A, while side B saw at LEAST 10 players join, then leave. It meant that at the end of Locker, there were only 4 people per side.

So to reiterate... stacking is fine. Changing sides to play with your bro is fine. Smacking random pubbers is fine. Jsut show a little common sense when priming so we can actually get the server above 8 people.

Regarding the stacking issue :

1 - First of all, I think it would be dishonest to accuse anyone of purposely stacking. I haven't witnessed any regular that would be guilty of it. Yes, sometimes all the regulars happen to be joining on the same side, but that's more attributable to a streak of bad luck than ill intent.

2 - Part of the reason why trying to force balance fails is that half the time, the server being even prevents any switching, and it seems like the server doesn't agree on which side is stacked from seeing which team it decides to put new players on. And even when the player distribution is in a state that allows players to switch around, it still requires people who are ok in saying "look at me, I'm the better player, I'm gonna be the one to balance it out". Turns out most regs are humble by nature. Very few "above-average" regs that I know do switch to balance, and even less do it systematically, whenever it is appropriate.

3 - Priming will -ALMOST ALWAYS- feel unbalanced. The least players you have, the less skill difference in each individual player is required to have one side crushing the other completely. If it's 3vs3 and one side wins by 700 tickets, chances are the results would have been around to same if we had switched two guys around. Whether it would have been the same side who would have won doesn't really matter. The point being that unbalanced teams really shouldn't be anything out of the ordinary when there are that few people. As more people come, the average skill of both teams will slowly balance out toward normalized values. This isn't anything new, at least not for newer battlefield games.

Originally Posted by chray00

Regarding the stacking issue :

1 - First of all, I think it would be dishonest to accuse anyone of purposely stacking. I haven't witnessed any regular that would be guilty of it. Yes, sometimes all the regulars happen to be joining on the same side, but that's more attributable to a streak of bad luck than ill intent.

2 - Part of the reason why trying to force balance fails is that half the time, the server being even prevents any switching, and it seems like the server doesn't agree on which side is stacked from seeing which team it decides to put new players on. And even when the player distribution is in a state that allows players to switch around, it still requires people who are ok in saying "look at me, I'm the better player, I'm gonna be the one to balance it out". Turns out most regs are humble by nature. Very few "above-average" regs that I know do switch to balance, and even less do it systematically, whenever it is appropriate.

3 - Priming will -ALMOST ALWAYS- feel unbalanced. The least players you have, the less skill difference in each individual player is required to have one side crushing the other completely. If it's 3vs3 and one side wins by 700 tickets, chances are the results would have been around to same if we had switched two guys around. Whether it would have been the same side who would have won doesn't really matter. The point being that unbalanced teams really shouldn't be anything out of the ordinary when there are that few people. As more people come, the average skill of both teams will slowly balance out toward normalized values. This isn't anything new, at least not for newer battlefield games.

Actually... not true. The other day, you and I sat on metro, remember?. The server hadn't started, yet. Gato joined and you switched to my side (I figure you wanted a challenge). Me and you, against Gato and someone else right? Gato disconnected (probably because his crap internet doesn't always work, and you switched back to the other side. Makes sense. Gato rejoined, but you didn't move. Did I say anything? No. Did I say anything to Gato? No. So we get someone (I can't remember who). You get someone. Then we get CRX. CRX moves to your side after a few deaths, making the teams 4 vs 3, in favor of you, Gato, CRX, and I think Packet. The rest of Metro we played mostly 3 vs 4. We'd get a guy, he'd get owned, then he'd leave. So we were constantly down a man. Fair enough, I don't mind the challenge.

I backed out of the game when we got five to grab some food (server primened, my job was done). I watched from the lobby, with active scoring on, as I ate. Player after player left. I rejoined and asked why 3/4 of the way through Locker, the server still had only 4 a side. Your response was "because I can shoot through stairs". Remember? Maybe the goal is to now indoctrinate people the "TPG way". Get owned. I like that way, I helped invent it. Maybe it's just a few buddies laughing between beers. Who knows. Who cares?

Accusations aside, if you want to play with your clan mates, play with your mates. I don't care. The server moves people. It happens. It's for numerical balance. But don't tell me when the server is 4 vs 3, and people have MOVED to play on that side that it's just "how the balanced works". That's disingenuous. People move mid-round all the time. And yes, sometimes when the server pop is low, one person can swing the whole thing. My goal is, and always has been, to make sure priming takes places so the server is full the rest of the night. If that mentality has changed since the BF2 days, then by all means, let me know and I'll stop priming.

I get it. You top shelf guys can't win for losing. But priming isn't about you (or anyone). Priming is about getting the server up and running. I see plenty of you guys running around with Phantom's and using defibs to have a little fun. But that frustrates others, and forces them to rage quit. So what is the point of priming if you make the other team rage quit and the server never gets full? That's it.

Sorry I hijacked your thread, Allane.

I think a lot of people had things to get off their chests about priming. This is as good a place as any to air them out. I'll keep an eye on it so we don't have to go Politics and Drama on this thread.

Maybe i will say what everyone is thinking, the [LOVE] clan works very hard to play with each other when the population is low or simi-low. When you have 4-5 player who play together all the time and are going try hard it can throw the balance off a lot even if the other team has good players. I understand you guys Love each other but sometimes it can be fun to play against your friends for the sake of balance. Back when i would play with the same people on the reg, we would split up when the population is low because we understand balance somewhat. Its not all about skill it that you guys work very well as a team and when the population is low you don't get full squad working together as one going full try hard. Im sure everyone appreciates the extra people during prime but that is the balance issue everyone is discussing.

Originally Posted by ShOrT-ShOt

Maybe i will say what everyone is thinking, the [LOVE] clan works very hard to play with each other when the population is low or simi-low. When you have 4-5 player who play together all the time and are going try hard it can throw the balance off a lot even if the other team has good players. I understand you guys Love each other but sometimes it can be fun to play against your friends for the sake of balance. Back when i would play with the same people on the reg, we would split up when the population is low because we understand balance somewhat. Its not all about skill it that you guys work very well as a team and when the population is low you don't get full squad working together as one going full try hard. Im sure everyone appreciates the extra people during prime but that is the balance issue everyone is discussing.

What are you even talking about. 4-5 LOVE players? That happens once every full moon. The only LOVE players that play during prime time are packet, crx and I. Bozo absolutely hates priming, and Remy, who's barely ever on, has absolutely no stakes in staking considering the position he's in with TeamPlayerGaming. The rare occasions he's on, he's the first one to switch if we join on the same side on low pop. Are you still holding a grudge over that one time when you got kicked out for making room and called bozo a fucking asshole after he apologized?

Please, next time you see "4-5 love guys on the same side during low pop", make sure to screencap that shit.

I know you would never admit you are wrong chray you can play the deny till you die game i knew you would. For example look at your response to ranger. I understand its easy for you to not understand when your part of the problem, so im sorry for bringing it up. Do you thinking its just a coincidence tho multiple people mentioning you and your friends? I think not

You dont even need to respond and deny it just consider that you could be part of the problem.