Thread: People attacking main base at the beginning of the round?

Originally Posted by BeerHunter

I know its frustrating and to me it's indicative of poor sportsmanship and quit often immaturity.

Just because something CAN be done doesn't necessarily mean it should be done and since people supposedly come to TTP to have fun , it's certainly not much fun if at the very beginning you are being harassed by the despicable spawn campers.

Whether its a so called valid tactic or not , it must be remembered that the primary object is to have fun with winning being the icing on the cake.

In a competitive environment sure. You are playing competitively to win so anything goes but during a pub night , I think not.

If I come across these types of players I simply move on , find another server or leave until they do (usually at the end of a map) rather than suffer the frustrations of spawn campers.

Its fine to say "organize your team and take them out" but that doesn't help much as you can read on all the PRM forums complaints about squads being spread all over the map and disorganized. More power to you if you can accomplish this.

Might be one of the reasons some servers will kick for attacking UC's. They want to make sure the pubbers have a good time rather than have to endure spawn camping with wins being based on teamwork , organization and effort , not cheap shoddy "tactics"

I play 2142, but the tactics carry over. Attacking enemy UC's can be a very smart tactic that takes extreme coordination. You're in their territory with one place to spawn (in 2142 at least due to spawn beacons) that can be taken out and is quite noticeable. The enemy can spawn as much as they want without the UC being capped for well... obvious reasons. One coordinated squad can keep the enemy pinned in their UC, keep them from having the valuable vehicles that spawn there, take out commander assets, and annoy the hell out of the enemy commander so he or she can't do their job properly.
Last time I had one of my squads do that, we did just that (on Bridge at Remagen as EU). We were drawing 2 enemy squads to try and take out my 1 squad. We had their vehicles and used their TV missles to take out their assets. When the rest of our team had taken their 2nd to last base, we were ready to cap that last one when it unlocked.
I've also been on the receiving end as a commander and as a normal soldier and from BigDog and Sjt (in the same squad) no less. When it happens to you, you take them out, you take out their point of access, and you push on. Pussing out isn't an option, and a well coordinated squad can take out the infiltrating squad. That means the squad uses VOIP and points out enemy Charlies and spawn points for elimination. To be quite honest, I'd rather have a fight that makes me say, "Damn, damn, damn, fucking hell," then a fight where I don't have to try. Err... unless it's Titan D, no one attacks, and we do another TTP photo shoot. That was fun.

At TTP there is a difference between Spawn Camping and attacking the enemy UC.

Definitions and Rules on "Camping":
It is difficult to define camping in the context of battlefield games, since the game requires complex strategies of defending and holding territory, stealth, and timing, so it will be judged on a case by case basis. Camping, by definition, is remaining in a specific area only to take enemies by surprise, however offering no strategic advantage to the team, other than to increase your score or pad your personal KD. And, as said above.....KD's don't win games. Flags win games.

Some examples of camping would include:

- Being in a position to take a flag, especially when if it is not taken your team will lose, and NOT taking it, simply because you are worried about being seen, or dying. Even worse would be if it is a multi-person flag capture point, and you are in a position to assist other players asking for your help, but do not. Worrying about LOSING should come BEFORE worrying about dying.

- Remaining in an area of the map that provides you with great cover and fire zones, but provides NO strategic benefit to your team (such as your spawn). Unless a flag is in your immediate fire zone, and you are justifiably protecting it, you know damn well that sitting in the backfield isn't helping anyone but your KD. Find a similar place, with great cover and fire zones, but that ALSO provides your team with a strategic advantage, and you are in the clear as far as the rules go.

Camping is NOT simply sitting in one place for a long time. That is a definition for simpleton games like Unreal and Quake. It's an outdated definition that does NOT apply here. If you are able to hold your tank, gun-emplacement, or sniping position for an extended time period because you have teammates guarding your flanks, offering you ammo, and keeping you supported, then you go ahead and give the enemy hell. So long as you are not directly disobeying your commander's wishes, you and your team's coordinated efforts are shutting out the enemy's ability to advance and take territory, which thus corresponds to your team's ability to hold territory and win.

Typically, if you are camping in a manner that does not benefit your team, you will know by the complaints and insults hurdled your way by your squad, squad leader, or commander. If you know something that your team/squad/commander doesn't, such as WHY you feel you are JUSTIFIED in holding that position, all you have to do is speak up, calmly, and explain yourself. Your team, if they are true teammates, have a responsibility to listen to your goals and ideas just as much as you do to theirs. Teamwork is a two way street, so be sure to communicate, and do so often, especially if you think you may be considered a camper. If you are communicating and justifying your actions to your team, then you are immune from punishment from the admin. If the team feels that you are wrong, and a majority of them agree, and most especially if you are disobeying your squad leader and/or commander.......then you will will be dealt with accordingly. The admin is about making the server happy. Not individual players like you. Keep that in mind.

In addition, if you are consistently camping, promoting camping, and losing while camping, expect the admin to take notice and become involved. The admin will become involved immediately when outbreaks of unjustified camping occur, and will do what admins do by issuing warnings, slapping, slaying, and perhaps including kicks or bans. Though we are reluctant to punish any one player for doing as his team does, we will identify and persecute the chief campers quickly, and move down the ladder from there.

Get out there and play. Take those flags, get on the offensive, or hold your ground. Call out desperately for reinforcements, set up your defenses, and win. Above all things, win.

A note on the definiton of "SPAWN CAMPING":

As has been highly discussed in our admin circles, it may be found that some definitions of camping that are legal, such as controlling choke points and suppressing the enemy's ability to move freely, could be stretched or construed to mean that the server and admins encourage spawn camping/suppression. This may or may not be true, but it is irrelevant. The server encourages winning. If a spawn is penetrable, and thus camp-able, it is that team's responsibility to ensure that it is protected. It is NOT the enemy's moral, ethical, or honorable responsibility to NOT attack it, even if it is uncapturable. If it is left exposed, and winds up with enemy MG's, vehicles, or snipers cutting down everyone that is spawning......yes, it's horrible. Oh, the agony. Oh, the suffering and gnashing of teeth. Yes, you are going to lose.

But before you cry out spawn camping, spawn raping, and asking the admin to save you.......think about what you are asking:

"Admin, kick these spawn campers!" in reality means, "Admin, please help me survive by slaying my enemies, so I can fight back, take enemy territory, and win."

This is something an admin can not do. It is not our job to help either side win or lose, or to perpetuate a game indefinitely by punishing the winning team and releasing the losing team from it's clutches.

If a player(s) is exploiting bugs and hacks, that is a different story, and the admins will punish these players before you probably even notice it is happening. Stacking players to climb fences and being creative in your negotiation of obstacles blocking a spawn entrance is NOT an exploit. It's a sign that the developers should have made a higher fence, since the developers are WELL AWARE of player abilities to jump, climb, and stack on one another. Don't blame the admins. Blame the map and game designers.

Full text on rules and policies for PR server is below and is pretty much the same for the other games I believe.
http://www.texasteamplayers.com/index.php?topic=27501.0