Thread: What is baiting? (Read my post fully before commenting please.)

Originally Posted by Adretheon

Cause if you are in the front of the rush, you should assume death. You should already have the mentality I'm going to get flashed or I'm going to die.

+1, I have always said this, first 2 guys in the rush need to push through, never let off the "w" key. I enjoy doing it, I think I'm pretty good at it. If you have the jump and waste no time getting there, sometimes you can beat the flash. Also I try to get as far as into the site as possible before dying. The way I see it is if I make it maybe 20 feet into the site before getting mowed down, the defenders will have their crosshairs on me and not on the choke point where my teamates are pushing through.

This is one of those topics that's widely open, not to interpretation, but complex definition.



To start, personally I define baiting as intentionally sacrificing a teammate (with or without their consent) for the purpose of misleading / distracting / luring / locating the enemy.


Now, the kind that tpg frowns on is baiting teammates without their consent.





IN regards to this whole blind rushing argument going down here:


A lot of what distinguishes sidestepping a rush acceptable and not has to do with what your position or role in a call is.


Being the first or second in a call IS A POSITION (and a critical one at that) that is not explicitly stated (because it should go without saying). Good rush calls are based on player spawns, if you are at very front of the rush spawn, the call is dependent upon you and by sidestepping when flashed you are likely doing much more harm than good. Simply because on some maps, take dust 2 B rush for example, the difference between success and failure is literally only a few feet in spawn positions in spawn. So if you are the first or second guy in that B rush call, your position is critical to the team's success. If you were to sidestep from your first, second, and sometimes even third position, you are discarding the very factor that the call was based off of and essentially screwing over your team for the sole selfish reason of not wanting to die.

If a call leaves room for open interpretation (and they usually do), it should be interpreted but only by seasoned and preferably skilled players. Its the players whom interpret a call and improvise during the call that win it for the team ALWAYS. Its the guys that jump-to/step-out of B and guard ct->mid, sit in tunnels and watch stairs, or sit on plat and watch window that win the round. Rarely will you find that aimlessness and blind following will provide any sort of benefit to the team and more often than not, usually get in the way (of the team winning the round).


So on a Dust 2: "rush B, 2nd guy flashes", the first, second, and third players in the call are automatically designated critical roles in the call. Otherwise, your role in the call, though loosely defined ("Rush B" designates the whole team to take B) is open to your interpretation (again this only applies to seasoned and preferably skilled players in order to avoid wantonness). However, its important to know that the more boldly you interpret the call, the more you have to be sure that your interpretation and really alteration of the call is not detrimental to the team's success (and if your alterations are extreme (for example by going mid, or separating downstairs into mid) you should always notify your team).

For example, if i am not one of the first four players and i am certain of my location, certain that the barrel in the tunnels will not obstruct my movement, certain that i will not be blocking any roles, and that there is no one in a better position to more reliably take the roll, I'll sidestep the rush in the tunnel in order to pick platform's crates and anyone riding or peeking over the rail (little lip that separates the platform from B site).


Now is this ok? Yes, because I am filling the role of covering the team from any crossfire from plat or part of B site, which is just about half of the critical positions that the enemy can defend a B rush from. But here's the thing, I only do this because I know I can make the shots and usually take them before the target enemy takes out any teammates.

This is why I say only seasoned and preferably skilled players should interpret or alter calls because should some wanton player decide to try and fill this, he'll likely miss step blocking some of the team from rushing, he'll miss the shots, and he'll block me or anyone else from taking them as well, this is the danger of interpreting calls. Not to mention usually only seasoned players can tacitly improvise: e.g. they'll see that someone has already side stepped the rush, from experience conclude that they sidestepped to assume the role of covering the teams rush from any cross fire from B plat.

So now, someone sidestepping, just to avoid dying and to wait and see if their team takes the site before following in, is not fulfilling any roles and is what pisses people off.







Now what worries me, is some wanton player reading the skimming or reading the first and last sentences of my post and then think they can do what ever they want. Again, I stress that only seasoned and preferably skilled players should be the ones improvising / interpreting / altering any calls.



Hope, this provides come clarity.

Originally Posted by Bunni

Now what worries me, is some wanton player reading the skimming or reading the first and last sentences of my post and then think they can do what ever they want. Again, I stress that only seasoned and preferably skilled players should be the ones improvising / interpreting / altering any calls.



Hope, this provides come clarity.

Problem with what you said is that there are way too many 'l33ter than thou' types that think they are "seasoned and skilled players" who always knows better than everyone else and therefore should be able to do what they want.

Obviously someone who would even be eligible to be called a baiter is in such a position because they think they are worth more than teammate X and know better than the caller.

Only one thing to do as a player: call them out on it and they might eventually get banned for it. Then there is one less problem player.

Originally Posted by MaFioSo

+1, I have always said this, first 2 guys in the rush need to push through, never let off the "w" key. I enjoy doing it, I think I'm pretty good at it. If you have the jump and waste no time getting there, sometimes you can beat the flash. Also I try to get as far as into the site as possible before dying. The way I see it, is if I make maybe 20 feet into the site before getting mowed down, the defenders will have their crosshairs on me and not on the choke point where my teamates are pushing through.

Less and less people play with that mentality, and its a damn shame.

Here's how your round should go: You spawn, and you look at where you are. If you are at the end side of the spawn(either closer to A or closer top B you should be buying flashes and a SMG. Because at that moment your role is to push, period. I've had a lot of rounds where we hit B on D2 first in line, flash the back of site, P90 to the car, get 2 kills. Being blind doesn't mean you are dead, it just means you have to know where you are better. In fact the better players, push the site blind cause they know where to go.