Thread: T's camping CT spawn on CS_Italy a complaint

every hostage map is set up in the same fashion as italy.

spawn on the far end of the map, and only two ways into it. Office, italy, militia, havana, assault. If the T's are able to break through the CT lines, get behind them, and prevent the CT's from bringing the hostages back to the hostage zone......

how can you ask the server to punish them? The T's are winning. The CT's have neglected to protect their rescue point, or are incapable of noticing the T's have broken through their lines.

As is clearly stated in the CS Rules:

There is no such thing as camping for a defending team. They must guard the objective, and if the objective doesn’t move, there’s no reason to think that the defenders MUST move to protect it. HOWEVER, there is quite a disease in CS, in which the offending team (bomb-carrying terrorists or hostage-rescuing CT’s) does little to pursue their objective. The best examples would be on dust, or italy, where frequently, offending teams will simply wait out the clock near their spawns, hoping to draw out curious members of the defending team. This is camping. Pure and simple. If you wish to camp, do so on a DEFENDING team.

The T's actual objective on a hostage mission is to prevent the CT's from rescuing the hostages. This is accomplished by either securing the hostages, or securing the hostage rescue zones, or both.

The server will never punish teams for doing this. It would be like punishing CT's for camping the bombsites (something quite easy to do on big maps like aztec, train, nuke, prodigy, or other maps where the CT's will ALWAYS have the advantage of reaching the site first).

An etc 30sec on a CS map.
Additional time added if Hostages are collected
A ban on T's camping CT spawn

I appreciate the suggestions.

#1. An extra 30 seconds or more was pondered on militia, since it's so large. In fact, though, it was found that a coordinated CT team could reach the hostages from any direction (tunnels, front door, widespread rush) within 30 seconds. This gave them a full 2:30 to grab the hostages and return to their spawn. It can be even faster on italy, assuming half the team doesn't sit at the end of the long hall, or wait in the apartments all day. Me, and people like me, have absolutely no trouble in completing the objective within the alotted time.....so thus, the extra time was not approved. As well, CAL rules do not give any extra time for such instances.

#2. It would be nice to have a time-bonus added for when the hostages are actually touched/in-tow. A mattie event script could do this, and I'll look into it. Maybe for each hostage touched, you get 15 seconds. Problem is, you could keep touching the hsotages over and over, and extend the round indefinitely. Not an easy script to manage. Probably not possible. And again, see response #1. You will RARELY see bigdog, or bigdog's followers be slayed on a hostage map. Nearly all maps require about 45-60secs, with the hostages in tow, to go from the hostage spawn to the CT spawn. That's 2 minutes to deal with the T's and reach the hostages. 2 minutes is an eternity.

#3. The server will never ban teams for winning. Even camping teams on offense (such as T bombers camping). If the CT's are stupid enough to walk into the trap and lose over and over.....the T's are doing it right. It's the CT's fault for losing in that situation, not the T's fault for winning. The CT's chose to walk into that trap, knowing it posed no tactical value, and was a trap. This happens most specifically on dust, where the T's camp outside their tunnel and on the bridge ramp.

You won't hear anyone say it more than me "Let them camp. Let the server deal with them. Don't walk into their ambush, let them walk into ours". And when my team fucks up and runs in their anyway....

well, we all know what happens when bigdog's team does something stupid...

But that's how the server sees it.

Punish losers for choosing to lose. Not winners for choosing to win.

Camping + offending team away from objectives = choosing to lose
camping + defending team at objectives = choosing to win

The CT's have neglected to protect their rescue point

Now just a point of clarification.

And honestly, lol Im not trying to be a smart-ass here.

If a CT team were to rush through... say the apartment and breach the Hostage House taking out 8/10 of the T's while the two remaining T's rushed market at a moderate pace and setup shop in CT spawn, the T's are doing their job. I know, I've done it pleanty...

This begs the question, can a CT stay back to secure, or try to secure, the rescue zone or would that violate the spawn-camp rule? And I dont mean camping from round one get-go... im talking about maybe getting burned a couple rounds and wising up and taking measures to prevent it by covering the extraction point.

Im guessing it violates the spawn camp rule, which is fine.. I just want to make sure.

a slay = a suicide. Hurts.

I agree that italy's rescue zone is more centralized, but it's also not as easy as it looks for the T's to enter it. Militia and office have some complicated paths that allow T's and CT's to go past eachother nearly unnoticed sometimes. Especially havana.

but maps like assault and italy are pretty obvious. Assuming the CT's are communicating and have a good presence across the map, they would know when the T's break through the lines and get in the rear.

hell, some of our own regulars, most notably spamdawg, yourself, and tony perkiss make it a HABIT as a CT to double back to their spawn after passing through the market, just so they can catch the tail end of a T rush, and cut them down before they can set up a spawn camp.

I agree that hostage maps make things more difficult in some ways....but they also make it easier in others.

The T's pretty much have to stay in one location, and wait for the ct's to come and get them, assuming CT's are organized, and systematically clearing and closing off areas of the map.

My argument against saying the CT spawn is off limits for T's would be...

It's not the admin's job to make the game easier for one side or the other. It's not the admins job to prevent one side from doing something they know will produce wins. And me, jumping off the bridge, rushing the cellar stairs side of the map, into the CT spawn, and holding it with 3 or 4 people ......i a near 90% guaranteed win.

problem is, I can't guarantee that 90% of the time I will make it to the CT spawn alive, since guys like you know I'm coming for it, and are taking advantage of my aggressiveness.

then the smoke nades and the flashes come.........then we simply learn that we can't take your spawn anymore, and we revert to protecting the hostage area (camping the house).

And then, you're probably going to start a topic about how you hate that too.

probably.

so then what am I supposed to do? I can't take your spawn. I can't camp the hostages. I can't do anything that I statistically should be doing if I want to win.

See my point here, JP?

That T isn't running away from anything.

If the CT's have the hostages, and there's only a few T's left, running for the CT spawn point, those are smart T's. They're going to make their last stand, in a desperate effort to put themselves between the CT's and a win.

"Running away" would be T's knowing the CT's have the hostages, and scurrying off to the cellars, or other non-essential area of the map, serving no purpose other than to ensure that the passing CT's will not kill them.

T's in the hostage rescue zone aren't running from anything. They are standing their ground, and doing it right.

I'm a T in the rescue zone every time I make it there. On office, on italy, on any map I can break through. I'm the first one to say "allright guys, we lost the hostages, pull it back to the CT spawn, and let's get ready".

"I'll be on the back stairs."