Thread: Improving de_dust

Looks good. Looking forward to playing it!

We need to get this on the map rotation, ASAP.

I have always thought dust would be fun with an alternate route to B; perhaps a T spawn over by lower tun entrance so that a b rush will actually have good timing, but an A rush still works

very cool max. i've never mad/modded a map before, but here are some thoughts that may help.

make sure the map is timed/spaced properly. that is, t's should get to where t's need to get to first, and ct's should get to where ct's need to get to first. this is often one of the biggest imbalances in a map (that one side has all time related advantages)... it should be pretty easy to measure it out and make it 'fit' right. i wouldn't at all be surprised if most map makers start with a geometric shape, like a star or cross, or whatever, and then form areas/skins/objects around it.

think rock, paper, scissors. there should be spots on the map that have an advantage over other spots. but no spot/area should be un-counterable/not have it's own weaknesses.

i think the biggest problems with dust are that the tunnels are choke points and the t's are never out of sight when on their way. there's really no place to hide that is separated by a decent amount of space and time from the other bomb site (like hiding outside b on d2 is a good way away from long a)... the best maps always seem to have separate and distinct entrances to each bomb site direct from t spawn that are totally out of view by ct's, until the t's hit the choke (season, d2, contra, etc.).

Thanks for the encouraging words everyone!

Originally Posted by (2)manno

very cool max. i've never mad/modded a map before, but here are some thoughts that may help.

make sure the map is timed/spaced properly. that is, t's should get to where t's need to get to first, and ct's should get to where ct's need to get to first. this is often one of the biggest imbalances in a map (that one side has all time related advantages)... it should be pretty easy to measure it out and make it 'fit' right. i wouldn't at all be surprised if most map makers start with a geometric shape, like a star or cross, or whatever, and then form areas/skins/objects around it.

It seems to me that an equilateral triangle is best representative of the distances and timings of maps, like so:

This model seems to work great for maps like season, dust2, inferno, losttemple_pro, etc. But some maps have the Cts spawn in a site (and use something more like a right triangle), such as cbble, prodigy, dust, etc. It seems that the maps that use the site-spawning method are not as well balanced as the triangle method, which perhaps is a fundamental flaw with these maps. I could try moving CT spawn to a new area between the sites, which could balance the map better. However, this would mean that the map would play extremely differently than it currently does, so I think I will try it how I have it now and then switch later if people agree that it would improve the map. I want this to be a map made for TPG, so anything the majority of the community agrees on, I will do.

Here is a triangle representation of the dust that I have modified, to give an idea of timing:

And here is an overview of the map, minus T spawn which is mostly unchanged:

Originally Posted by (2)manno

think rock, paper, scissors. there should be spots on the map that have an advantage over other spots. but no spot/area should be un-counterable/not have it's own weaknesses.

I agree, and that was my idea behind adding the area above underpass. Specific boxes and site lines will need to be reevaluated after a playtest though.

Originally Posted by (2)manno

i think the biggest problems with dust are that the tunnels are choke points and the t's are never out of sight when on their way. there's really no place to hide that is separated by a decent amount of space and time from the other bomb site (like hiding outside b on d2 is a good way away from long a)... the best maps always seem to have separate and distinct entrances to each bomb site direct from t spawn that are totally out of view by ct's, until the t's hit the choke (season, d2, contra, etc.).

An early thought I had was to add a banana (ala inferno) into A , but I didn't know if this would be too drastic a change. I did alleviate the issue of CTs nading deep into the A tunnel with a single door at the entrance however. I think I need more feedback from actual playtests to really see what should be done.

Thanks for the input manno!

Oh, and I just finished fixing leaks and compiled the map, I will put up a link to the current version in a little bit (once its uploaded).
Edit: Link to map: http://www.filefront.com/17516928/de_dust_remake_b1.bsp