Thread: Definition: Teamplay?

So could we get sort of a unified definition of the standard of teamplay expected on the servers here?

I like the servers, and they are the only pub servers I bother to play on (except deathmatches... lol!) But it gets really old when I go to flank the enemy team, and get slayed or whatever for "not following the call". Sometimes there isnt even a call made, people just scrum up together in one direction like 5 year olds following the ball. This is not teamplay. I mean, whether or not people follow the call even, verrrry rarely will someone ever cover my back from enemies.

Are admins supposed to slay teammates who watch you get shot in the back? Should they ban every player who gets a kill or two and exploits the hole in the other team? Should people be punished for playing intelligently?

The idea that you are not being a team player or pissing in the face of the call for the round just because you aren't within 3 feet of the bomb carrier is ridiculous. How is the T side supposed to hold a site against an evenly skilled opposing team if everyone is huddled up together? When I play CT side, I usually just run in the direction I think the T's are least likely to go and try and shoot them in the back. This works only because regulars on the server are too scared to look or go in the other direction for fear of getting slain or banned. That does not improve or enforce teamplay, it just encourages people to try and bait their teammates and to disregard large portions of the map. Teamplay has nothing to do with the proximity between players and everything to do with helping eachother.

I could go on and on about specific instances of this, but the only time the T side needs to clump together, is when the bomb is down. Up to that point, there is nothing wrong with being spread out across the map. Hell, even if the call is "RUSH X SITE RETARDEDLY" (sadly the most common call is to rush like idiots) when there are 11 people on a team, 1 player spotting the other approaches is a great idea, not cause for slay/ban. Don't punish intelligent play.

Say what you are doing to your team. Don't just go off on a tangent and do what you want. If someone says "let rush B", and you wanna defend a flank, then say "I'll come through mid to B and cover our flank" with your mic. Communication is key, and the odds are you were just doing your own thing to get kills or it looked that way. There is a reason this server is so popular, and it is because of the communication in it.

Or even type "I'll be flanking"

Figured I'd whip up a few pointers about how the calls are meant to be played out, so you understand where people are coming from, why we expect certain things, and how not being a teamplayer effects the entire team. Read it if you want, or not, doesn't matter to me, I had fun writing it lol

I wanna break this down a lil, cause it seems a lot of people don't see where it's 'smart' play, but you gotta look at the ideal plays in a server that runs the way ours does. These tips and insights apply to other maps as well, but it's easiest to pick a scenario and run with it so everyone can get a visual, I'll stick with d2, since it's easiest.

Where things go wrong and why it's important to stay with your team.

The Call: Rush B
This should include one person watching lower and the rest running straight in. Rarely do you see more then 4-5 ct's initially in B, so isn't it better to have 10 people rushing in on them? Yeah sure the first 1-3 will most likely die, but that's being a teamplayer, taking a hit for the good of the team. Now if done right with flashes and without everyone bunching up in the tunnel, it's very effective and less of an initial loss in people. So lets throw in an extra guy going lower, and one watching 'flank', you're down to only 8 rushing in already. Throw in the person who sees you aren't following the call, trust me, people watch, and one who is new and still a bit thrown off by the whole experience, then you have maybe 6 people paying attn. take away those first 1-3 who had the balls to go in first and yeah, you're gonna lose a round, cause you've got 4v4 with ct having the advantage of being in place already, and the guys left in tuns don't have much of a chance of breaching B.

The thing people don't always understand is this has been the same forever here, and it works, we see it works. There are new regs every day, and trust me, this topic has been brought up before.

The one excuse that bothers me most is how people say it's not smart to not watch 'flank' but people don't seem to understand that it's not about flank if you get into the sight within 10- 20 seconds, which our rushing calls are meant to do.

Flank? What flank?

The Call: Split long and short
Ideally 4-5 people in the lead flash over long, a good split of every other person long and short so everyone doesn't crowd tryin to get through the doors and get naded, also so long and short hit at roughly the same time, this is crucial. Long - Everyone actually gets through the second door and into long, quickly check right corner and pit and continue to advance asap to hopefully draw some eyes and nades from short. Smoke double doors at mid and run straight to the stairs, do not stop to pick! With the right split and no one getting caught up at mid cause soemone stopped to shoot, you'll both be comin around corners at the same time, which means the ct's dont know which way to shoot first. Take the sight and you now have the upper hand, take your places and get ready to defend. There is no flank if done quickly and efficiently, you'll be in A before the CT's who were in B get back around to A.

When flank comes into play.

The Call: Slow Play
Watch every door or hallway or ramp or anything that leads to wherever it is you have the advantage in places to hide and wait. Don't advance into enemy territory, and get yourself killed. Trying to get kills usually ends up hurting the team, rather then helping cause you've moved too far into the enemies advantage point. When a call is finally made, gather up and move together. Watch behind as you advance, but there is no reason to stay behind, unless you are in view of the site, as in at long A in pit, otherwise, get the site first, then kill those who contest it.

Watching the flank does NOT mean run the other way, it means go with your team and watch behind as you move with your team

I know this isn't always the case, but you have to understand when making a call, you're not telling the team to rush in like idiots and get killed. You're hoping that everyone knows the most effective way of running these particular calls, with this many players, and why we do them. I have seen it work over and over again. If a team stays together and rushes together, it's quite effective. If you lose, but you at least worked as hard as you could together as a team and died as a team... well then, you are a teamplayer.

Faith, you should copy and paste that to CS:S main forum, good stuff for the most part. I do disagree with some of the logic... and without going into it, I've been playing for a looong time, not a newb here lol!

But yeah, on rushes, it doesnt work out to simple math like that. CT's have a better fire angle, but T's have the nade advantage, usually working out so that only 1/3 of the time (on D2 anyways), T's will take the site regardless of how it is played. The idea is to set it up so that the rounds you do manage to take site, you have at least one person roaming from the CT flank back to bomb. You have someone (or multiple) covering the flank posted up where CT"s will have trouble pushing. Even on other better calls that isnt just silly rushing, you still need people spotting areas regardless of what is going on. Splitting A on D2? Post someone B tunnels to pick the rotate. Storming mid and appartments on inferno? Post an awp or ak at T stairs for the banana rotate. Rushing mid to B on season? Leave someone squeeky door to catch the longside rotate. This goes on for every single map.

In general, on any map, when you have 10 people per side, there is no excuse not to have people set out for easy picks as CT's storm to the planted bomb. There is ALWAYS a flank, and slaying people for spreading out, is ridiculous. The only time you should ever have every single person in the same area, is if EVERYONE is pistol saving against guns or you have a very tight strat that everyone knows (which prolly wont happen on a pub lol!)

So when you have someone getting consistent kills pushing on flanks, do not slay! Or if a single person sits at the back of the rush pucking the rotate, do not slay! It's not as if people get in trouble for letting teammates die in front of them. Noone gets slain if someone makes a ton of stupid call that gets the team killed or banned for not following it.

Now there doesnt seem to me an easy way to help get away from teamplay by proximity, suggestions welcome here. But as it stands, I hate playing T side on the server during regular hours because it is almost always one bad call after another and I get frustrated, and go get kills and then get admin hurt lol!

lol, I usually say something about it, especially when people just call rushes, I get very vocal. Dont worry about that.

The whole point of this thread is to see if we can get a bit of change on the practice of admin slay/ban people who spread out. I dont really care about specific strats or anything, I just want a change on admins getting mad at someone for not being within 3 feet of the bomb at all times. It's all in the title here, definition of teamplay and standards?

As I was trying to say: Do you have to stay within X feet from your teammates? Do you have to cover your teammates and watch their backs? If a call is flat out retarded, do you still have to follow it, even after saying it is bad? What is the standard of teamplay expected on the server?