Thread: Decline of Science in the US

Originally Posted by N-Ur-Face

As someone who is finishing up high school as we speak and is going to a great college on a great scholarship, I represent a minority in this forum.. Most of you are older folks and can only speak third hand on the issues.

I, however, have been exposed to many schools in multiple states of varying prestige. I have been home schooled, private schooled, no schooled, and, of course, public schooled. I have been to magnet schools, ghetto schools, even an AoIT. I have seen it.

You can blame this generation all you want for us just wanting to get out and have fun. True, to an extent. But you older people didn't? I've talked to my grandfather, parents, my grandfathers mother, and they were all the same way. Maybe fun has changed a little (barely) but the same general idea of rebelling and having fun has been around for quite awhile my friends. However, the cause for this issue is in YOUR generations. It is in the 50s and 60s who hold office spots as well as the 30s and 40s who parent the kids. We are only a product of our environment, as much as we all know, and we can only be expected to act as such. Bad parenting on so many different levels leads kids into these lives of either too much freedom or none at all. Kids now have no idea how to get out, truly have fun, but to do so responsibly. I consider myself amongst this group. However, I do so willing to accept the fact I have met others like me... Few and far between. This is a parenting fault, NOT the kids.

To go even further, back into the OP of the thread, science not being properly taught in schools is due to politicians and where money gets spent and what is taught in schools. You can bitch and complain and disagree all you want, we go to high school (and even college for that matter) to learn a set of guidelines to pass a test at the end. We do not so much do to Chem 101 as we do Chem Final. Understand? The states standardized tests have been a plague upon teaching standards in multiple states since I can remember in schools. I can't count the number of times I have heard teachers bitch and complain about being forced to teach for the test and only the test, partly because they have to and partly because they feel it their duty to not let the kids fail. Plus, if the kids fail, they lose money. Noone wants that, no matter how much they care for the kids. Now it's getting even worse with this new idea of taking these tests and making it so that EVEN IF YOU HAVE A 110% IN A CLASS, IF YOU FAIL THE STATE STANDARDIZED TEST, YOU FAIL THE CLASS! No ifs, ands, or buts. This is a horrible idea that is only leading further down the same road we were stuck on before.

To bring it all together, education is fucked because of politics. Can you believe I took an FCAT (Florida Comprehension Assessment Test) MATH test on computer a year ago? Math on the fucking computer? All to save a little money? Bitch please.

I just hate this stupid "blame it on the kids" attitude. It's not our fault. It's yours.

Edit: And to go into the science is falling behind part. Sad in some ways, yes. But I got pretty pissed off my freshman year when my biology teacher told me he was forced, by law, to teach the theory of evolution AS A FACT. It was leading nowhere good and was only pissing people off. Kids were being exposed to only half of the story and then shunned away from the other half. In order to legally hear about religion in schools, you must take a religion class or a history class that covers religion. Hah! But even english and social studies have to bring up evolution in their course loads. Come on now. And this is coming from someone who is not a Christiain, so don't get me confused with some overly-religious shaman out to get anyone who mentions evolution because I'm not.

At the same time, science is not a field that really has to be taught in this country anymore. Why? Because the jobs aren't there! We aren't developing shit anymore like we were in post-war America. This country has become a true consumer country with the only in-country jobs being down involving basic mathematics and hands on functions. That's fine with me, I'm going to school to be a doctor. But, realistically, the need for science to be taught in public school as vigorously as it once did just isn't there. As such, we will continute to see science decline in this country. Sad, yes. I prefer it not to be that way. However, it is what is happening and what is likely to continue happening.

Seriously? I don't even know where to begin with this. So I'll just leave it alone. Far too many "young" assumptions to bother with.

Originally Posted by Alundil

This on the other hand is pretty trollish.

Yeah, it is.

At least it reads that way.

Oddly, I was using "priest" as a secular reference: a generic title for a sanctifier. It made sense in my mind as I typed it.

But that was just intention. Re-reading it, it doesn't come across that way at all.

Mea Culpa.

Cheers,


AetheLove

Originally Posted by N-Ur-Face

As someone who is finishing up high school as we speak and is going to a great college on a great scholarship, I represent a minority in this forum.. Most of you are older folks and can only speak third hand on the issues.

I, however, have been exposed to many schools in multiple states of varying prestige. I have been home schooled, private schooled, no schooled, and, of course, public schooled. I have been to magnet schools, ghetto schools, even an AoIT. I have seen it.

You can blame this generation all you want for us just wanting to get out and have fun. True, to an extent. But you older people didn't? I've talked to my grandfather, parents, my grandfathers mother, and they were all the same way. Maybe fun has changed a little (barely) but the same general idea of rebelling and having fun has been around for quite awhile my friends. However, the cause for this issue is in YOUR generations. It is in the 50s and 60s who hold office spots as well as the 30s and 40s who parent the kids. We are only a product of our environment, as much as we all know, and we can only be expected to act as such. Bad parenting on so many different levels leads kids into these lives of either too much freedom or none at all. Kids now have no idea how to get out, truly have fun, but to do so responsibly. I consider myself amongst this group. However, I do so willing to accept the fact I have met others like me... Few and far between. This is a parenting fault, NOT the kids.

To go even further, back into the OP of the thread, science not being properly taught in schools is due to politicians and where money gets spent and what is taught in schools. You can bitch and complain and disagree all you want, we go to high school (and even college for that matter) to learn a set of guidelines to pass a test at the end. We do not so much do to Chem 101 as we do Chem Final. Understand? The states standardized tests have been a plague upon teaching standards in multiple states since I can remember in schools. I can't count the number of times I have heard teachers bitch and complain about being forced to teach for the test and only the test, partly because they have to and partly because they feel it their duty to not let the kids fail. Plus, if the kids fail, they lose money. Noone wants that, no matter how much they care for the kids. Now it's getting even worse with this new idea of taking these tests and making it so that EVEN IF YOU HAVE A 110% IN A CLASS, IF YOU FAIL THE STATE STANDARDIZED TEST, YOU FAIL THE CLASS! No ifs, ands, or buts. This is a horrible idea that is only leading further down the same road we were stuck on before.

To bring it all together, education is fucked because of politics. Can you believe I took an FCAT (Florida Comprehension Assessment Test) MATH test on computer a year ago? Math on the fucking computer? All to save a little money? Bitch please.

I just hate this stupid "blame it on the kids" attitude. It's not our fault. It's yours.

Edit: And to go into the science is falling behind part. Sad in some ways, yes. But I got pretty pissed off my freshman year when my biology teacher told me he was forced, by law, to teach the theory of evolution AS A FACT. It was leading nowhere good and was only pissing people off. Kids were being exposed to only half of the story and then shunned away from the other half. In order to legally hear about religion in schools, you must take a religion class or a history class that covers religion. Hah! But even english and social studies have to bring up evolution in their course loads. Come on now. And this is coming from someone who is not a Christiain, so don't get me confused with some overly-religious shaman out to get anyone who mentions evolution because I'm not.

At the same time, science is not a field that really has to be taught in this country anymore. Why? Because the jobs aren't there! We aren't developing shit anymore like we were in post-war America. This country has become a true consumer country with the only in-country jobs being down involving basic mathematics and hands on functions. That's fine with me, I'm going to school to be a doctor. But, realistically, the need for science to be taught in public school as vigorously as it once did just isn't there. As such, we will continute to see science decline in this country. Sad, yes. I prefer it not to be that way. However, it is what is happening and what is likely to continue happening.

You really think school has changed that much? Sure you have computers to play with but fucking around on the clock has never changed. The fact of the matter is you have better equipment, better knowledge base, classes we couldnt get until college, and better educated teachers. The only thing that really changed is how pc the world has become.

Your post alone may just be what turns me to the side of the arguement the rest were making. Your life up to now far from makes you an expert. Trust me your far from the first to be in your position right now and even farther from it to ever happen. I see one thing they have covered in school is how to place blame on anyone but yourself.

Sure the FCAT's are a pos and sure we gave plenty of excuses for why you can fail while still being told its ok. However in the end its your fault if you fail. We can say you cant pay attention and blame it on ADD but your the one that actually didn't pay attention. All we did is give you an excuse why it was ok.

As you yourself mentioned "We do not so much do to Chem 101 as we do Chem Final". So how can it be anyones fault but your own if we made the entire class about passing the test and you didn't?

Originally Posted by kyle700

But if you read it, you would see that the studie shows that insects account for 20% of methane emmisons. That's not horribly useless information.

Althought I admit studying cockaroach emmisions is a stretch.

That part i dont remember from the study. I think the writter may have embellished a bit but in all honesty. I was in more shock that someone spent money to figure it out then i was paying attention to what was said.

Originally Posted by CivilWars

I don't totally disagree with Face. The difference in large part is due to parents/households. Look back 50 years and compare the % of kids that grew up in a two parent home with the % today. Not making any moral judgments, but as someone that came from a single parent home it is very hard on a single parent unless they truly go out of the way to give a crap.

How many of us that are 30+ got our ass beat if we came home with a bad report card? How many kids today do? Without any actual numbers to back it up right now I would hazard a wild guess that there is a much higher percent of parents who don't know and/or don't care how their kids are doing in school these days.

Im not saying i completely disagree either. That being said is it really the parents fault if they have to both work or hold two jobs because thats what it takes to survive?

I disagree with it being they dont care how their kids do in school. Lack of time doesnt equal not caring. Lack of actualy being allowed to displine a child they way were we isnt the parents fault. Both items are society as a whole. Personally i see no reason for the government to step in and tell a parent what an acceptable punishment is for their child. Granted some go to far always have and always will but giving an option to kids to call the cops because they got what they deserved is just stupid.

If anything i would say on average we are all to blame for the current situation. The kids part is not doing what they should have been doing as it always has been. Everyone else for allowing government to step in and make stupid decisions for us. As soon as we started giving a shit if the girl next to you didnt like your conversation we started our trip down hill.

Some think NK or Iran or China are what our biggest threat is. I offer another. PC imo is the biggest threat to this nation. Once we lose our edge completely it wont matter if we have the most powerfully military on the planet because we'll be to pussy to use it.

Originally Posted by kyle700

It's not so much as not passing the test as it is the test not teaching what is important. It's not a good way to teach, even more so because if you don't have 66% of the kids pass, you lose funding. If you lose funding, you have to cut interesting courses like electives, and then people become even less interested in school and blah blah blah. And for the kids who do pass the tests easily (Not bragging, but I'm one of them) we suffer the reprecussions as well. I dunno where I'm going, so MEH.

Not to pick any bones but if kids would apply themselves there wouldn't be a problem with the test. You can blame politics to a point because its a stupid setup. However there is no excuse for not being able to pass this test other then you were fucking around. Not you inparticular but you know what i mean.

Life is a test in itself. If you cant pass a simple one on paper odds are your going to fail the one of life as well. Then again maybe digging ditches and flipping burgers isnt a failure to some. So i hate to say it but the test didnt lower the funding. The retards next you did.