Thread: Tax Credit deal financed on the backs of mortgage holders

Originally Posted by Alundil

I realize that you're probably speaking about the current crop (shudder) of candidates falling all over themselves. But with that said, the simple fact that you made that statement is pretty crappy. This is why....

Corrupt Dem (generic - therefore you have no idea what the individual's policies are)
vs
Honest Repub (generic - therefore you have no idea what the individual's policies are)

You vote for the "D" even though you know that "D" is corrupt (and therefore untrustworthy, unethical and likely engaged in criminal activities or enterprises) even though there is an honest "R" across the aisle. Note: that this same example goes in the other direction. It really doesn't matter what the particular party is in question, just that it's "your" party and all other facts be damned (not you specifically Fov though it is your example - but rather the vast majority of voters). You have no way of guaranteeing that the "D" supports the same positions that you support, you can only assume based on the scarlet letter sewn on his breast and "hope" that he does. But given that you know, for the sake of this argument, that he's corrupt it is quite possible and even highly likely that he told you exactly what you wanted to hear to get your vote and has no intention of making good on the promise(s).

Given that no Dem or Repub is a cookie cutter person and they all have different special areas of concern/experience/platforms I think that this is the exact problem with politics in this country (and probably a lot of others). No one even bothers to pretend to care what the candidates actual choices are when it comes down to the vote, people simply pull the level with their initial behind it. Blindly voting for bad people (regardless of party affiliation) begets blindingly bad policy and outcomes. Every. Time.

Three things. One, I'm talking about a generic Democrat who generally supports the national Democratic platform. Obviously there are differences, and those would affect my decision based on if they support above and beyond the platform or less of it. So it's not cut and dry. Two, the Democratic party is not "my" party. I vote for them because they are slightly to the left of the Republicans. They are the lesser of two evils. I vote for them specifically because they are not Republicans. Yes, that sucks, but that is the current reality of our political situation, where we vote against people instead of for them. And three, I agree with you. Voting for bad people is not a good idea. It's detrimental. However, I cannot bring myself to vote for a candidate who I believe has terrible ideas. How can I? Would you? Another option is to not vote/vote for a third party. That's good and all, but in our system, that is essentially a vote for the Republican. I have almost no choice because our system doesn't give us one. It sucks, but it is the reality we are living and why we need to change it so badly.

Originally Posted by Fovezer

Like Wicked pointed out, this is based on the parliamentary systems around the world. Clearly you know nothing about government systems outside of our own. But if you don't like my idea, that lets me know I'm heading in the right direction. I'd be far more concerned if you liked it. So thanks for that.

I can think of a few major parliamentary systems that don't work that way. Proportional representation has a good side, but it's not all roses.

As for this part; "Clearly you know nothing about government systems outside of our own."; why you gotta bring it like that?

Cheers,


AetheLove

Originally Posted by AetheLove

I can think of a few major parliamentary systems that don't work that way. Proportional representation has a good side, but it's not all roses.

As for this part; "Clearly you know nothing about government systems outside of our own."; why you gotta bring it like that?

Cheers,


AetheLove

I didn't say they all did. The UK and many Commonwealth countries, for example, don't use proportional representation. Most of the West European countries, however, do, and those are the ones I was primarily refering to. I even used two, Germany and the Netherlands, as examples. And I know it isn't all roses, but no system will ever be all roses. It's the nature of the beast.

Originally Posted by Fovezer

Three things. One, I'm talking about a generic Democrat who generally supports the national Democratic platform. Obviously there are differences, and those would affect my decision based on if they support above and beyond the platform or less of it. So it's not cut and dry. Two, the Democratic party is not "my" party. I vote for them because they are slightly to the left of the Republicans. They are the lesser of two evils. I vote for them specifically because they are not Republicans. Yes, that sucks, but that is the current reality of our political situation, where we vote against people instead of for them. And three, I agree with you. Voting for bad people is not a good idea. It's detrimental. However, I cannot bring myself to vote for a candidate who I believe has terrible ideas. How can I? Would you? Another option is to not vote/vote for a third party. That's good and all, but in our system, that is essentially a vote for the Republican. I have almost no choice because our system doesn't give us one. It sucks, but it is the reality we are living and why we need to change it so badly.

W T F ?

Yea Fovezer, STFU, you need to be smacked on the mouth...that leftist gibberish logic was borderline schizo maniacal depressive.

Originally Posted by Xavsnipe

Yea Fovezer, STFU, you need to be smacked on the mouth...that leftist gibberish logic was borderline schizo maniacal depressive.

At the very least a deaftist. Why fight the fight if your gonna lose? Precisely the reason people bitch every year after the election. The system is fine its the players we keep putting in that are fucked up. Voting a party just because they arent the other party? LOL Fuck the topics as long as they arent this group im good.

deaftist, look at youuuu all clever and shit. Deaaaaftist, nice one dgodYMCA.

Originally Posted by Red_Lizard2

Barely, and the system tries its hardest to make sure that it is only 2 parties. You have:
!) The line "Voting for a third party is throwing your vote away"
2) It is much more difficult for a third party to raise money compared to the major two, especially ones like the Libertarians that show some ethics and don't take large contributions (supposedly) from corporations.
3) The whole debate cycle is set-up to make sure a third party can never get on stage and basically get free air time to share their ideas. The last one to do it was Ross Perot and that was only because George H.W. Bush invited him (If I remember correctly).

Or basically people are told to not vote for a third party, never hear about them because of the billions of dollars democrats and republicans raise to spew their crap, then the few times they could actually get national attention (for free), they aren't allowed in. Sure there are third parties, but unless you are a billionaire, or have some incredible name recognition, it is just a two party race.

Agreed but in the end it is OUR call not theirs on who makes it into office. If people wish to be blinded by the tv thats on them. There is money out there from the government to fund your campaign. Third parties should spend more time looking into it before jumping in head first. Plus most third parties are wack jobs that make dems and reps look good. Pretty hard thing to do if you ask me but they manage it. The main problem is the i vote dem because they arent reps and vise versa attitude shown in this thread.