Thread: Which recent president was the biggest spender? Which was the smallest?

Originally Posted by WickedTribe

Alright, you clearly know that your story is bullshit then. You don't have 50 employees, so if you're hiring overseas now, you can't blame it on the healthcare bill. Additionally, I don't know where you live, but where I'm from, software engineers are in high demand. You'd have a very hard time finding anyone willing to work without health benefits, regardless of the existence of this law.

The fact of the matter is that the expected and actual impact of healthcare reform on the unemployment rate has been negligible, and the losses that are expected are due to people voluntarily giving up their jobs or reducing hours because their health coverage makes the extra income unnecessary.


FactCheck.org : GOP’s ‘Job-Killing’ Whopper, Again
The Congressional Budget Office(CBO) estimates that the legislation, on net, will reduce the amount of labor used in the economy by a small amount—roughly half a percent—primarily by reducing the amount of labor that workers choose to supply. …

The expansion of Medicaid and the availability of subsidies through the exchanges will effectively increase beneficiaries’ financial resources. Those additional resources will encourage some people to work fewer hours or to withdraw from the labor market. …

Changes to the insurance market, including provisions that prohibit insurers from denying coverage to people because of preexisting conditions and that restrict how much prices can vary with an individual’s age or health status, will increase the appeal of health insurance plans offered outside the workplace for older workers. As a result, some older workers will choose to retire earlier than they otherwise would.

Is there really a fact of the matter on an item that has not taken effect yet? I would think not. I would also think its a HUGE false assumption people are going to give up jobs and hours because they have health care. Who ever thought that crap up hasn't paid attention to anything that happened in this country.

Im going to guess on this because i haven't found it in the bill yet. The government is all for taking their money up front and only giving it back after your april paperwork is due. So odds are your going to be paying for health care up front and deducting on your taxes. But like i said thats just a guess from their current and past functioning methods.

Let's see if you can answer just one question at a time. I get the feeling I'm overwhelming you.

If Obamacare isn't the largest tax, then what is?

Originally Posted by WickedTribe

Alright, you clearly know that your story is bullshit then. You don't have 50 employees, so if you're hiring overseas now, you can't blame it on the healthcare bill. Additionally, I don't know where you live, but where I'm from, software engineers are in high demand. You'd have a very hard time finding anyone willing to work without health benefits, regardless of the existence of this law.

The fact of the matter is that the expected and actual impact of healthcare reform on the unemployment rate has been negligible, and the losses that are expected are due to people voluntarily giving up their jobs or reducing hours because their health coverage makes the extra income unnecessary.


FactCheck.org : GOP’s ‘Job-Killing’ Whopper, Again
The Congressional Budget Office(CBO) estimates that the legislation, on net, will reduce the amount of labor used in the economy by a small amount—roughly half a percent—primarily by reducing the amount of labor that workers choose to supply. …

The expansion of Medicaid and the availability of subsidies through the exchanges will effectively increase beneficiaries’ financial resources. Those additional resources will encourage some people to work fewer hours or to withdraw from the labor market. …

Changes to the insurance market, including provisions that prohibit insurers from denying coverage to people because of preexisting conditions and that restrict how much prices can vary with an individual’s age or health status, will increase the appeal of health insurance plans offered outside the workplace for older workers. As a result, some older workers will choose to retire earlier than they otherwise would.

I never said I currently outsource to anyone overseas. I used that as an analogy of what I would do when I had to add more people. When I say the words, "I need them", that's not the same as saying, "I use them", is it? An when I say, "I'm in a holding pattern until I know what I'm gonna be paying", what does that say to you?

It says, I don't need them right now, but if given the choice of hiring American workers to do a job that I can pay someone 50% less to do who I don't have to pay for every runny nose they get, guess what kid, I'm gonna do it. But the healthcare issue will impact it. How much do I have to pay for the same job so they can make a living?

Originally Posted by WickedTribe

The fact of the matter is that the expected and actual impact of healthcare reform on the unemployment rate has been negligible, and the losses that are expected are due to people voluntarily giving up their jobs or reducing hours because their health coverage makes the extra income unnecessary.

That's because it hasn't started yet. Tell me, what do you think happens when a mandatory health plan gets forced onto people who can't afford it? I'll tell you, we GIVE it to them, which means they are below poverty, in which we have to pay for them 100% anyway. How is that any different than paying for it when they go to the emergency room now? Do you think that money just magically appears? You pay for it one way or another.

What if they make one dollar more than the minimum? Even with a subsidy they have to pay for something out of pocket. So why work? That means they can sit at home and enjoy free health care on your dollar and mine. And you still think the impact is, negligible?

And you think that the point of universal healthcare is so that someone doesn't have to work two jobs? So basically, you and I are paying them to NOT work? I'm just trying to figure how you think this is, uh... okay.

So let me ask you another question... who creates jobs? You or me?

Originally Posted by Ranger10

So let me ask you another question... who creates jobs? You or me?

I'll give you a heads up as a business owner in here. Your perspective of how business actually works doesn't mean anything in here.

I know. But what is interesting, is to see how people answer the question. It's far more telling than an actual discussion on business.

Originally Posted by Ranger10

Let's see if you can answer just one question at a time. I get the feeling I'm overwhelming you.

If Obamacare isn't the largest tax, then what is?

No, ‘Obamacare’ isn’t ‘the largest tax increase in the history of the world’ (in one chart)

Yea, well, Obama was behind that tax increase as well.

Originally Posted by Ranger10

Let's see if you can answer just one question at a time. I get the feeling I'm overwhelming you.

If Obamacare isn't the largest tax, then what is?

Is this a trick question? Can't you simply go look up a breakdown of tax revenue sources?

Are we still letting a lawyer be the arbiter of what is and what isn't a tax?

Cheers,


AetheLove

Originally Posted by Ranger10

I never said I currently outsource to anyone overseas. I used that as an analogy of what I would do when I had to add more people. When I say the words, "I need them", that's not the same as saying, "I use them", is it? An when I say, "I'm in a holding pattern until I know what I'm gonna be paying", what does that say to you?

It says, I don't need them right now, but if given the choice of hiring American workers to do a job that I can pay someone 50% less to do who I don't have to pay for every runny nose they get, guess what kid, I'm gonna do it. But the healthcare issue will impact it. How much do I have to pay for the same job so they can make a living?

You should be more clear. You didn't say that it was a hypothetical. Hypotheticals are worthless except as something to be backed up by data. Let's look at some data. Let's say that healthcare is just a tax. Do tax increases cause unemployment?

Bobby Schilling Vs. Reality: Taxes and Employment, 1967-2011 | Irregular Times

no.

That's because it hasn't started yet. Tell me, what do you think happens when a mandatory health plan gets forced onto people who can't afford it? I'll tell you, we GIVE it to them, which means they are below poverty, in which we have to pay for them 100% anyway. How is that any different than paying for it when they go to the emergency room now? Do you think that money just magically appears? You pay for it one way or another.

Yes, of course you do. Why would that ever be up for question? Yes, services cost money. Roads and schools cost money too. I'm not sure that I see your point here.

What if they make one dollar more than the minimum? Even with a subsidy they have to pay for something out of pocket. So why work? That means they can sit at home and enjoy free health care on your dollar and mine. And you still think the impact is, negligible?

I'm not following this argument. You are aware that there are low income and hardship exemptions, right?

FactCheck.org : How Much Is the Obamacare ‘Tax’?
Who’s Exempt?

The law makes a number of exemptions for low-income persons and hardship cases.

“Individuals who cannot afford coverage”: If an employer offers coverage that would cost the employee more than 8 percent of his or her household income (for self-only coverage) that individual is exempt from the tax.

“Taxpayers with income below filing threshold”: Also exempt are those who earn too little to be required to file tax returns. For 2011 — as previously mentioned — those thresholds were $9,500 for a single person under age 65, and $19,000 for a married person filing jointly with a spouse, for example. The thresholds go up each year in line with inflation, so those cut-offs will be higher in 2014, when the tax first takes effect.

And you think that the point of universal healthcare is so that someone doesn't have to work two jobs? So basically, you and I are paying them to NOT work? I'm just trying to figure how you think this is, uh... okay.

Yes, I'm happy to live in a society where people aren't forced to work two jobs just to cover basic needs like healthcare. I've benefited from the roads, schools, IP laws, clean water, police, military and other services that we all pay for, and I believe that it's my duty as an American to make sure that everyone has access to the very barest of necessities, at the very least. I'm among the upper income brackets and will pay more than I get back for a service like this.

So let me ask you another question... who creates jobs? You or me?

Both. As an employee, I provide a service to my company. Without my skills, as well as the skills of the other employees, the company wouldn't exist. Similarly, if no such company existed, I'd be out of a job. If my company fired me or went bankrupt, I'd have to find a new job, or start a new company. If I quit my job, my company would need to hire someone to replace me. It's a mutualistic relationship.