Norway killer Anders Breivik ruled sane, given 21-year prison term

**deathgodusmc** · 08-24-12, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by Jambi

Really?

Yup. I hold nothing back when it comes to those who CHOOSE not to be part of civilized society.

**DancingCorpse** · 08-24-12, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by flame

Seems a bit light considering the number he killed. I am all for prison to be an improvement of criminals so that they can be productive members of society. In the US we have cages for people we are afraid of. If we were truly as great as we think we are, criminals would serve fitting punishment that prevented them from returning to crime. How ever I think there is a line that is crossed where society needs to realize that your brain is very twisted and put you in a facility that can treat you for the rest of your life. This guy is an example of that. Your low level thugs and such need to be helped not caged. I think even a one time murderer could be released provided we had a better system to improve them. We are so quick to pass judgement and write people off.

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Like A Clockwork Orange?

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**Fovezer** · 08-24-12, 04:33 PM

21 years is the max sentence allowed under Norwegian law. And after 21 years, he can be kept locked up if he is deemed to still be a danger to civilized society. So needless to say, I doubt he gets out after 21 years, and he definitely won't if he keeps saying the stuff he has throughout his trial.

**-Lazarus-** · 08-24-12, 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

We should use the death penalty more often. We would put an end to return trips if three strikes had a different ending.

I think the net result of using the death penalty the way you seem to describe would be more dead cops. After all what would a criminal on strike three have to lose?

**-Lazarus-** · 08-24-12, 07:56 PM

By the way, HOLY CRAP! What the hell is wrong with Norway?!?!? 21 years?!?

**Ranger10** · 08-24-12, 08:24 PM

So I'm fairly conservative in many ways and a bit liberal in others. This is one of the "other" times. Oddly enough, I sorta understand the idea of having a "prison" like this. Most criminals are really products of a home which felt as much like a prison as any super max facility in the US.

So taking the time to actually rehabilitate people is probably a good thing. Think of how many people we have locked away for having a few ounces of pot on them, sharing cells with guys who rip heads off of toddlers. If we had more rehabilitation prisons around for those crimes which aren't necessarily "bad", but still something we don't want in society, then why not loosen the grip?

That being said, let me switch back to my conservative side... I would extend capital punishment to murderers, aggravated rape and child molestation.

Kill 'em all.

**MaFioSo** · 08-24-12, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by Ranger10

So I'm fairly conservative in many ways and a bit liberal in others. This is one of the "other" times. Oddly enough, I sorta understand the idea of having a "prison" like this. Most criminals are really products of a home which felt as much like a prison as any super max facility in the US.

So taking the time to actually rehabilitate people is probably a good thing. Think of how many people we have locked away for having a few ounces of pot on them, sharing cells with guys who rip heads off of toddlers. If we had more rehabilitation prisons around for those crimes which aren't necessarily "bad", but still something we don't want in society, then why not loosen the grip?

That being said, let me switch back to my conservative side... I would extend capital punishment to murderers, aggravated rape and child molestation.

Kill 'em all.

Pretty much agree with everything. I would agree with having a more rehabilitation prison for non violent offenders such as people who steal cars or sell drugs. The United Sates currently has one of the highest rates of repeat offenders. As trigger said, if you're not a hardened criminal before you enter a US prison, you probably will be when you get out.

However, I would be far more conservative with people convicted of child molestation and multiple murders such as Breivik. It is IMO that people that commit those types of crimes cannot be rehabilitated and if we were to put them in a rehabilitation program it wouldn't be worth the risk of releasing them to see if it worked.

Also everyone is talking about rehabbing these criminals but no one is talking about punishment. If 1 of the 70 people murdered by this guy was your dad, mother, brother, wife, etc you wouldn't give a shit about rehab. You wouldn't care at all if after 20 years he was released and then became a model citizen. You would wan't him to spend his entire life in prison as punishment for what he did. It would be a great injustice for Breivik to be out on the streets after 20 years, rehabilitated or not.

It's a tough argument, there has to be some balance between rehabilitation and "punishment fits the crime".

**deathgodusmc** · 08-24-12, 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by -Lazarus-

I think the net result of using the death penalty the way you seem to describe would be more dead cops. After all what would a criminal on strike three have to lose?

I dont your prediction would come to fruition. They already have nothing to lose in every 3 strikes state and the death toll didnt rise. In fact its been lowering.

**deathgodusmc** · 08-24-12, 09:03 PM

Originally Posted by Ranger10

So I'm fairly conservative in many ways and a bit liberal in others. This is one of the "other" times. Oddly enough, I sorta understand the idea of having a "prison" like this. Most criminals are really products of a home which felt as much like a prison as any super max facility in the US.

So taking the time to actually rehabilitate people is probably a good thing. Think of how many people we have locked away for having a few ounces of pot on them, sharing cells with guys who rip heads off of toddlers. If we had more rehabilitation prisons around for those crimes which aren't necessarily "bad", but still something we don't want in society, then why not loosen the grip?

That being said, let me switch back to my conservative side... I would extend capital punishment to murderers, aggravated rape and child molestation.

Kill 'em all.

Rehab doesn't work enough to justify the expense. Time for them to make a choice. Plus they already have rehab in many prisons. Just because it doesn't met the standards of some people doesn't mean it isnt there.

**Ranger10** · 08-24-12, 10:13 PM

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

Rehab doesn't work enough to justify the expense. Time for them to make a choice. Plus they already have rehab in many prisons. Just because it doesn't met the standards of some people doesn't mean it isnt there.

But they don't know HOW to make a smart choice. The problem is, as Trigger pointed out, all our current prison system does is train them to be better criminals. Look, "rehab" isn't someone sitting around a circle with a bunch of other tossers, and sharing their feelings. It's about creating momentum for making the right choices. Giving someone a purpose, a reason for living, or any other motivation for becoming a productive member of society is always better than sitting around in a prison cell wondering which gang you have to join to not get shanked.

It's not "expensive". Creating super max facilities are expensive. The money you spend on rehabilitating people who don't know any other way of doing things will pay off in the long run far better than letting the "system" train them instead.