Thread: Empire State Building Shootings

Originally Posted by WickedTribe

I'm actually very pro-gun rights, but arrogant statements like this are why gun nuts rub me the wrong way. NY doesn't need you to defend it. NY has its problems, but no other city in the US would have handled 9/11 with the poise that NYC did. Shortly after 9/11, they had a blackout. Where another city would have panicked, looted and basically shat their pants, NYC and their "sheep" kept their cool.

Then you missed my point as well. Sheep are those that not only can't but won't defend themselves. Never said that New Yorkers were sheep. My post had nothing to do with NY or its gun laws. It was 100% at the allusion that the men and women in blue are adequate enough protection for me. I don't even fault the officers involved in this instance. I morn for what they are going through right now. Shitty hand they were dealt.






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Originally Posted by Stephen Haddad

There's nothing gun nut about that at all... people who do not carry benefit from those that do... period...

I'm referring to the term "sheep," to describe those who chose not to carry. But also, this has been shown to be incorrect, or at the very least, inconclusive. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...gJ6lD0JFyrVNTg (caution, pdf)

Originally Posted by Nuckle

Then you missed my point as well. Sheep are those that not only can't but won't defend themselves. Never said that New Yorkers were sheep. My post had nothing to do with NY or its gun laws. It was 100% at the allusion that the men and women in blue are adequate enough protection for me. I don't even fault the officers involved in this instance. I morn for what they are going through right now. Shitty hand they were dealt.

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How do you define "choosing not to protect" one's self?

I define it in a number of ways... when I'm in a car its wearing a seatbelt and driving defensively, when I'm at home its locking my doors and keeping a firearm in servicable condition (and keeping myself trained to use it) ... when i'm at work its carrying mace (i work in a firearm free zone unfortunately) when i'm having sex its wearing a condom... i think it is more of an issue of choosing to accept personal responsibility for your own health and safety... i fail to do this all the time by the way... i hate wearing a seatbelt and I smoke cigarettes... but I recognize that those are my decisions and I accept ownership of them. What is irresponsible is believing that you do not need to accept this ownership... My neighbor learned this the hard way as she cowered in her upstairs bedroom as 2 men robbed her and the police arived 2 hours later.... maybe its not so bad to get robbed (i think it is)... but what if they had had rape in mind, or worse

Originally Posted by WickedTribe

How do you define "choosing not to protect" one's self?

Debate the protection that the police alone provide and we can talk. Not 4 words of a post that gives you the opportunity to look smart. Nice try though.


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Originally Posted by Stephen Haddad

I define it in a number of ways... when I'm in a car its wearing a seatbelt and driving defensively, when I'm at home its locking my doors and keeping a firearm in servicable condition (and keeping myself trained to use it) ... when i'm at work its carrying mace (i work in a firearm free zone unfortunately) when i'm having sex its wearing a condom... i think it is more of an issue of choosing to accept personal responsibility for your own health and safety... i fail to do this all the time by the way... i hate wearing a seatbelt and I smoke cigarettes... but I recognize that those are my decisions and I accept ownership of them. What is irresponsible is believing that you do not need to accept this ownership... My neighbor learned this the hard way as she cowered in her upstairs bedroom as 2 men robbed her and the police arived 2 hours later.... maybe its not so bad to get robbed (i think it is)... but what if they had had rape in mind, or worse

Maybe they're not being naive, maybe they, like you, choose to accept some risk in life. I always wear a seat-belt, but I certainly don't carry mace or a gun around with me. Why? Because I'm a lot more likely to be killed by a lack of seat-belt than I will by a lack of mace. That doesn't mean that I'm under some illusion of perfect safety. I could, of course, carry a gun everywhere. It would be inconvenient, but I'd probably be safer. I could also wear a bullet proof vest everywhere, and get my car's windows replaced by bullet proof glass.

Originally Posted by Nuckle

I certainly will never try to make you protect yourself in any other manner than you see fit.


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I didn't think that you were suggesting forced carrying.

Sometimes it is alot safer NOT to carry a gun. If someone wants to jack your car for example or mug you, all they want is your car or your money or jewelry. Now, if I had a gun in either one of those situations, my risk of getting shot for a material possession escalates exponentially. I´ve seen it many, many, many times here. I don´t know if criminals here act completely different as criminals in the U.S. but down here, it´s better not to carry a gun...in my opinion.

Originally Posted by Xavsnipe

Sometimes it is alot safer NOT to carry a gun. If someone wants to jack your car for example or mug you, all they want is your car or your money or jewelry. Now, if I had a gun in either one of those situations, my risk of getting shot for a material possession escalates exponentially. I´ve seen it many, many, many times here. I don´t know if criminals here act completely different as criminals in the U.S. but down here, it´s better not to carry a gun...in my opinion.

Valid post. I carry every day and the important thing to learn when you decide to carry is the right and wrong time to draw your weapon. Every situation is different and making the decision to go for a gun in any situation before it happens would prove to be a bad one.


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