Thread: Republicans and Democrats should be terrified of this movement...

Originally Posted by Ranger10

Alright... everyone back up... I can't believe what I'm about to say, but I agree with Fovezer. Paul is a little too radical. He's got some good ideas, but overall his ideas stem from a radicalization of some of the core belief's of what would be his "base".

I can see why he would gain some traction in some areas, mostly because he's appealing to a jaded population of voters. But on most topics, he'd be far too extreme. We need a stabilizing force in the White House right now.

*shudders*

I need a shower now.

Its ok, Fov gets it right now and then. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while.

I love how most people look at the presidential Elections like we are electing a god, one who will fix everything, and "make everyday Summer." There is still the Congress and the senate, and recently the Scotus too.

Originally Posted by SmokenScion

I love how most people look at the presidential Elections like we are electing a god, one who will fix everything, and "make everyday Summer." There is still the Congress and the senate, and recently the Scotus too.

And they are all in bed together. I hear ya.

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

If you have something you want to say to fov just come out and say it.

Suck my balls, Fov.

Originally Posted by AetheLove

I suppose the answer to that would depend on what sort of gold standard you have in mind. The extreme example would be actual specie currency: gold coins.

My sense is that what most people mean when they talk about a gold standard is the dollar pegged to a particular weight of gold. There are a number of variations on that theme too.

I wrote about the gold standard (and why someone might choose to believe my drivel over someone else's drivel) in another thread some time ago. I'm not going to repeat all that. I think I have it bookmarked on my home machine, but I'm on the road now and so you can either find the reference on your own or wait for me to finish dodging Isaac.

But the basic reason is that the dollar/gold exchange is set by the government. They can change that peg. There are historical examples of the US gov't doing exactly that.

If you want "the free market" to determine the money supply, then why do you want a gold standard? In that case, some arbitrary quantity of gold in a pit determines the supply... unless we have gold-backed dollars in which case supply is determined by some arbitrary quantity of gold and some arbitrary dollar/gold exchange rate with is set by the government and can be changed by the government.

We (presumably) want the supply of money to expand or contract as needed in response to changing demand for money in the economy. Putting gold into that equation can only make it less responsive to our needs.

You mention interest rates. In a well-operating market for money, interest rates will be set by supply and demand. I don't see how the mechanism by which we believe our money to be real has any effect on the interest rate someone will charge you to borrow it. We've seen market failures and interest rate manipulation in all eras and across all monetary systems.

Likewise with deficits. How will a gold standard prevent the government from borrowing?

The idea that gold somehow has inherent value beyond its simple usefulness as a metal is pure mythology. That so many of us continue to operate under that assumption is testament to the power of mythology.

I think that the desire for a gold standard is basically the desire for there to be some solid, immutable, thing which is beyond the manipulation of the powerful and on which we can base our system of exchange. Lacking trust in government or bankers, we want to move our money (our wealth, and our productive work) away from their control.

I don't think such a thing exists - and if it does it certainly isn't gold. As long as government is in the currency business, bad government will create currency problems. I don't know of any way at all to get government (or bankers) out of the currency business.

You can remove yourself, if you wish. You can choose to exchange via barter rather than currency. You can choose to hold your wealth in objects or property rather than in a bank (which uses currency).

There are a number of examples of local currencies. There is an interesting one in Ithaca, NY. There are many other examples. But it's still currency, and any medium for exchange will encounter exactly the same problems we talk about here as that medium grows.

Still, if you trust that currency more, then you should put your wealth there rather than in dollars. But like Dorothy, you've always had the power. If you think some other country is doing a better job managing their financial affairs, then open a bank account there and keep your wealth in that account - denominated in their currency rather than dollars. If you believe gold is safer, then trade your dollars for gold and hold your wealth in lumps of metal.

But ALL of these things are subject to market forces, and all of them are susceptible to manipulation by the powerful (including, but not only, governments). There is no baseline, immutable, stable thing.

Cheers,


AetheLove

So how do you propose ending the runaway deficit spending ? Devaluation or deflation or just continue to print money (backed by what) and learn to live with inflation. Oh well we can always use Xav's cousins to haul around enough paper money to buy a loaf of bread, the sad part is the shit will be fresh printed with sharp edges so when you can't afford toilet paper you can't use it to wipe your ass with.

What do experts (economists) think we should do? Perhaps we could start a discussion there?

I don't mean one or three political zealots with a degree, I mean what is the consensus among a wide range of highly regarded and accomplished professionals?

Originally Posted by Warflagon

What do experts (economists) think we should do? Perhaps we could start a discussion there?

I don't mean one or three political zealots with a degree, I mean what is the consensus among a wide range of highly regarded and accomplished professionals?

Damn well that precludes my participation in every aspect as I'm none of the above but just a working stiff seeing my hard earned dollar dwindling in value by the day.