Thread: The future...

Hello, and welcome to the future! Okay, that might be overstating things a bit, but I'm pretty excited about some of the stuff that I've been researching for the last year or so, and I thought I'd show this to everyone.

First let me preface this by saying, this is NOT a political thread. This falls squarely under the "News" title of this forum. While I hold out hope that you clowns won't turn this into a political debate (hence the reason this is in this forum and not General), it would seem absurd to the point of foolishness to expect so.

Now... for those of you who, like me, are environmentally conscience, then perhaps much of this stuff will be old news to you. For me, I find it fascinating. I've been doing a great deal of research on the possibility of living "off the grid". This means that you live without connecting your home to the power or water grid of your city/state. While its a neat idea, the reality is, we all like our computers and indoor plumbing. But science is providing a way to do just that, and make money at the same time! Just to be clear, some of the technology you'll see here is not ready for consumer use. It's still in it's research and development stage. And in some cases, will be quite expensive until there is a market for it. But rest assured, science and business will press on. So sit back, and enjoy the show. Er-- post.

STEP ONE: Passive House

The first step is to build a passive house. This is a German concept that has been around for decades. The basic idea is to turn your house into an air tight, thermal insulated, "cooler". Think of it like those styrofoam cooler you take to the beach. This link is a short .pdf of what I'm talking about.

Click me for Passive House.
Wikipedia article on PassiveHaus.

Now, what the first link shows in the second page is the internal wall construction of what one version of a passive house would look like. I've seen some where the exterior wall was nearly 18inch (instead of the standard code built 8inch as we have in Texas). You would basicaly create three layers, cellulose, closed-cell foam, and something like polystyrene loose insulation. When combined with triple pane, UV coated windows with gas in between the layers, you get an R-value well above most homes. Some estimates say (and I can't find the link where I read it) the R-value could be near R100. Which is... insane. You extend this all the way up into the attic. The passive home I was in, had the closed cell foam in the rafters. The ambient temp in the attic was around 77 degrees. In the summer. In Texas. This stuff is no joke.

What does this mean?

Well it means that your home doesn't lose very much of the energy you pay for in heating and cooling it. Which is, for those of you who own a home, it where a tremendous amount of your money is spent. It also means your home uses about 90% less energy than the standard code built home. Austin Texas is seeing temendous growth in passive home / LEED certified buildings.

Further more, when you use recycled steel roofing shingles (CivilWars will be able to give you more of an idea about this), then you can turn your home into an armored, energy efficient building capable of having a net-zero carbon footprint. I'll explain what that is later.

There are a couple of other things you'll need for this type of home.

• You'll need an air exchanger. Air exchangers like those here, simply pull air out of your home, use the same air to cool down the air it pulls from outside, which it then deposits back into your home. It's really important because you need to change the air out. And since your home is now air tight, you have to swap it out mechanically. A commercial grade air exchanger will swap out the air in a typical family home several times a day.
• You'll need to build your home a certain way. Usually this means whatever style of home you build, it needs to have one side facing the south sun (if you are in the northern hemisphere). You need this because of the PV (Photo-Voltaic) solar cells need direct sunlight.
• If you don't intend on making your own power, then you can still be hooked up to the grid. you energy costs will literally be one tenth of your current power needs if you build a Passive House and fill it with Energy Star rated appliances.
• I would also recommend switching over to LED light bulbs. They use about 80%-90% less energy than standard fluorescent bulbs, and about 40% energy than halogen. They are considerable more expensive, yet they last tens of thousands of hours. Pay attention to the "Lumens" See here.
• You'll need radiant floor heating. For those of you who don't know what this is, you are essentially laying water filled hose throughout your home under the flooring. When you pump warm water through the hose, it will warm your home evenly without actually needing a heater until the coldest months. When combined with a furnace, it will heat the home quicker, and with less overall energy.

Passive House Cost: Right now, Passive homes will be about 20% more expensive according to most estimates. That is significant, so you have to consider your energy expenses when factoring in your choice to build one.

Passive Home Location: Passive homes can be built anywhere. There are however some regions which will need additional equipment to supplement environmental concerns. Regions like the Pacific Northwest need to consider the amount of sunlight they will receive if they are planning to produce their own power. Desert regions will need some form of condenser to gather enough water... if they desire to produce their own power.

Additional: Things you should also know

• The good thing about Passive Homes is that noise will be a thing of the past. With the thick, super insulated exterior walls, you can be in the middle of the city and barely hear anything going on outside.
• If you get LEED certified, you are eligible for tax credits in some states. I know Texas does it. but then again, we're badass.
• If you use the standard cellulose, polystyrene and closed cell foam in conjunction with certain sheet rock, you won't ever have an issue with mold. Mold will not grow on any of those materials. And if you shell out the cash for steel, you'll never have an issue with mold, or termites, or generally bugs of any kind. Remember, the home is designed to mechanically swap out air. So you won't need weep holes in the exterior walls which allow bugs a highway into your home.
• IF you did pony up the dough for a steel framed home (it doesn't add any real resale value to the home) then you would have the kind of strength rated for most hurricanes and even an F1 tornado. See here.
• A passive home is mildly fire resistant. Mostly because the materials are somewhat resistant to fire. But to be honest, from what I understand, the fire resistance is minimal.
• However, you should receive a discount on your home owners insurance. It will be very difficult to break through any of the triple-pane windows. So security systems would work better than normal.
• Do all these things, and your "carbon footprint" is reduced. Bear in mind, you still have to consider all the carbon expended on behalf of your home construction, so you have to build that into your model if you choose to concern yourself with it. But your energy bills will be dramatically reduced. Your home will likely only turn on its conditioner or heater once a day for a few minutes, or not at all.

So these are the advantages of building, or even retrofitting your current home as a Passive House. Lets talk for a second about putting your home on steroids, and making this thing an energy producer.

STEP TWO: Powering your home

Currently, science has us very close to being independent of all fossil fuels. In fact, as I write this, there is one final engineering feat to be made, and we will be able to build homes able to create their own power using nothing more than sunlight and water.

What I'm about to show you is the holy grail of energy. Whomever perfects this will make Bill Gates look like Oliver the orphan. This man's name, is Dr. Daniel Nocera. Dr. Nocera is a chemistry professor and researcher at MIT, Massachusetts Institute of Technology. They've created a company called Sun Catalytix, which is currently working to produce, market and sell the final piece to the energy puzzle. They are creating what is called, and electrolyzer.

And electrolyzer is a piece of equipment which breaks water down into its component parts, oxygen and hydrogen (the most abundant resource in the universe).

The process is this:

• You used stored water from either rainfall or snow. You can even drill a well if you have the money for it.
• Using PV, or Photo Voltaic solar cells, like those found here, you take the energy, power the electrolyzer, which will split the water from your cistern into its component parts, Hyrdrogen and Oxygen.
• The electrolyzer works by passing a current (provide free by the solar panels) through two cathodes of dissimilar metal alloys, and in doing so, will separate the water.
• You store the now liquid hydrogen into a safe container. You can either dissipate the 0₂ into the atmosphere, or hold on to it. Oxygen bar anyone?
• You recombine the hydrogen with air from outside using what's called a hydrogen fuel cell. Most fuel cells use fossil fuels to produce power. There are many different kinds, like alkali which are toxic as hell, but only hydrogen produces zero emissions. Now... there is a relative concern for safety from using Hydrogen. It is a very combustible fuel. But it is less combustive than gasoline. So that puts it into perspective.
• When you recombine the hyrdogen with air in the fuel cell, you produce three "byproducts"... heat, pure H₂0, and energy. All three can be used in your home. The heat can be used to create hot water, or as I've mentioned above, you can use it to heat water used in radiant floor heating. By storing the water the fuel cell produces, you are no longer beholden to the city water which usually takes like mud and has a million chemicals in it. And of course, you have power. Depending on the size of fuel cell, you may need to supplement your power from the city. But if you buy a larger one, then you can power your home completely without using any power from the city at all. What's even better... you can sell the excess BACK to the city and they have to pay you the same, or close, to what you had to pay them for the same energy!
• If you make enough hydrogen, then you can fill up your hydrogen fuel cell car for free!

Remember, you are also powering a home that uses 90% less energy than a standard code built home in the first place. So you should have an abundance of power left over to sell back to the city.

Or... you can use it to power a green house. Think about growing anything you want. Vegetables, fruits, or your own coffee beans using pure H₂0, LED growing lamps and temperature controlled greenhouses free from the grid.

Estimated Costs: The cost of the PV solar cells can be quite high. If you buy enough to power your home directly, then you are looking at thousands of dollars. Luckily, like the Passive House, you should qualify for tax credits in most states. The cost of the fuel cell is also expensive. And until the electrolyzer is perfected by Dr. Nocera and Sun Catalytix, then the hydrogen fuel cell isn't a viable option. The cost of cisterns, depend on the whether you put them above ground or below. But right now, this whole thing hinges on the electrolyzer. Until it's complete none of this will work.

Obviously, much of what I've described here is based on new construction. It would be very difficult to retrofit an older house this way, though it is not impossible. Its also obviously very expensive as it's new technology. But a competitive market will drive those prices down as they always do. But you have to consider all the tax incentives, rebates, energy savings over the next 20 years when factoring in your price.

STEP THREE: Debate

Consider this. We are on the verge of turning our homes into clean, renewable power stations. We are nearing the time when fossil fuels will start to wane in their use. We will be able to produce power, water, heat, automobile fuel, and even food all in one place, using nothing more than the sun, and water. Think about all this as you hopefully add some constructive and thought provoking comments in the next few pages.

Ready? Set. Go!




On a side note: No, I am not a paid spokesperson. I don't own a passive house construction firm. I don't have any financial stake in any of the products I've linked here. I just like clean, renewable energy that doesn't kill my planet or force others into poverty to make it.

God damn politicians.


I had to.

Very interesting ranger. I think i will be changing the design technique of my permanent home when i do start to build it.

Well, with the exception of the electrolyzer itself, everything else I've mentioned here is already in existence and is a marketable product. There are electrolyzers on the market now, but they are cost prohibitive. The real issue with using the, in conjunction with fuel cells is where the bottle neck will be... the hydrogen production? The sunlight? Where?

Luckily, in Florida, you guys have everything you need in abundance; sunlight and water.

Originally Posted by Ranger10

Well, with the exception of the electrolyzer itself, everything else I've mentioned here is already in existence and is a marketable product. There are electrolyzers on the market now, but they are cost prohibitive. The real issue with using the, in conjunction with fuel cells is where the bottle neck will be... the hydrogen production? The sunlight? Where?

Luckily, in Florida, you guys have everything you need in abundance; sunlight and water.

Yeah im not so much concerned with the water part but when i build my home (which is a monster) i will be concerned about saving on the old power bill. I even considered making a spot for a solar farm because in this state you get fucked by the power company.

In my planned home, I have a Gambrel barn (which is a common feature on the Texas horizon) which houses the fuel cell, has the PV panels on the roof and uses a "grain silo" to store the water. I like having it off the house, plus it looks normal on a Texas home. Then run the pipes and electrical back to the home.

The only thing I'd still need is a wired internet connection. Screw internet by satellite. And propane. And propane accessories. By Hank. Hill.

Originally Posted by Ranger10

In my planned home, I have a Gambrel barn (which is a common feature on the Texas horizon) which houses the fuel cell, has the PV panels on the roof and uses a "grain silo" to store the water. I like having it off the house, plus it looks normal on a Texas home. Then run the pipes and electrical back to the home.

The only thing I'd still need is a wired internet connection. Screw internet by satellite. And propane. And propane accessories. By Hank. Hill.

Yeah im not doing satellite anything ever again. Mine is my own design. Its roughly 33 thousand square feet but it has a lot of open area and the rooms that are there are far bigger then in a normal home. I think the smallest bedroom is actually bigger then most family rooms. The part that gonna suck is the roof. Even if i could or wanted to do it i cant because of my leg. I learned one thing it cant handle is walking the pitches of a roof. Everything else i can actually do on my own but i will most likely get a finisher to come in and do the final coats on the walls. Mine isn't up to par imo.