Wow. The Dems should probably stop bragging about saving GM.

**-Lazarus-** · 09-10-12, 01:45 PM

Insight: GM's Volt: The ugly math of low sales, high costs | Reuters

This was shocking news to me. I mean, what a perfect example of why government should not bail out any company.

**SmokenScion** · 09-10-12, 02:53 PM

So, you thought it was a bad Idea, the bailouts. But you're trying to oust Barry cause he didn't live up to his promises of rebuilding after a recession. Do you listen to yourself? So loosing 1 million jobs is paving the way to success is it?

**deathgodusmc** · 09-10-12, 03:13 PM

Typical blown out of proportion number your using smokin. It was never 1 million. GM had roughly 300k employees total. They said they had to have the bailout so they wouldn't have to lay off hundreds of thousands of employees. Then they laid off all but 60k. Last time i checked 240k was hundreds of thousands. So it was a huge fucking failure and did not stop a single person from losing their job. GM would have liquidated a bunch of shit, restructured, and still had employees. The only thing the bailout did was give bonuses to the same assholes that put the company in the ground.

**Fovezer** · 09-10-12, 03:27 PM

Man, it's going to be hilarious to see his reaction when Obama wins reelection. He gets mad when a private company spends money doing research and development, which never turns an immediate profit, and mad when the government spends money to do research and development. Who needs research, though, am I right? The Dark Ages were a much better time!

Letting GM and Chrysler fail in the middle of a deep recession would have been the most damaging thing that you could have done. The failure of them alone would have been bad, but the domino effect would have been devastating and probably put us into a full-blown depression.

**Warprosper** · 09-10-12, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

Last time i checked 240k was hundreds of thousands. So it was a huge fucking failure and did not stop a single person from losing their job.

They stopped making cars then?

**-Lazarus-** · 09-10-12, 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by Fovezer

Man, it's going to be hilarious to see his reaction when Obama wins reelection. He gets mad when a private company spends money doing research and development, which never turns an immediate profit, and mad when the government spends money to do research and development. Who needs research, though, am I right? The Dark Ages were a much better time!

Letting GM and Chrysler fail in the middle of a deep recession would have been the most damaging thing that you could have done. The failure of them alone would have been bad, but the domino effect would have been devastating and probably put us into a full-blown depression.

Hey Fov, um, NO. This isn't the video game console industry. The car industry is not a loss leader industry. But, that's really a capitalist concept so somehow I don't think you understand what the fuck I'm talking about so I'll wait while you google it....

Ok, you back? Great. So as I was saying, the auto industry is not a loss leader industry, meaning that cars aren't produced and sold in hopes that those cars will somehow become profitable later after saturating the market and providing supporting products. So... R&D is a constant process in manufacturing and when the market can finally bear the cost of producing such a car, then the car (or specific feature in the car) is produced for sale. Not when it costs more than twice as much to produce as it does to sell. Unless you're a car company with a controlling interest held by the federal government. And guess who the largest buyer of the Volt is? You guessed it! The Federal Government, led by that fool in the White House. Oh well, at least we're eating our own overpriced dog food, right?

As usual, you have no fucking idea what you are talking about.

**-Lazarus-** · 09-10-12, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by SmokenScion

So, you thought it was a bad Idea, the bailouts. But you're trying to oust Barry cause he didn't live up to his promises of rebuilding after a recession. Do you listen to yourself? So loosing 1 million jobs is paving the way to success is it?

Smoken, Government doesn't rebuild out of a recession. Companies do. Government needs to do what it can to get the hell out of the way and create fiscal policies that will allow those companies to do the building. This example is the best example of that principle I have seen in my lifetime.

One man's failure is another man's opportunity. GM goes under, another or more than one agile company that is not burdened by crazy union deals and bad financial decisions takes its place. What is happening here is retarded.

**deathgodusmc** · 09-10-12, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by Warprosper

They stopped making cars then?

They stopped just as much as they would have without the bailout.

Lets not forget they sold 9.25 million cars in 2007. 8.35 million in 2008. 8.39 million in 2010. Over 9 million in 2011. At an average purchase price of 31,968.

I couldn't find 2009 but i dont think we need to see that to have an idea of the problem being over stated. As far as my math can tell its lowest sale year was still around $266,932,800,000. Far from NEEDING a bailout but probably within range of someones ass in a sling. lol

So there making a million less cars a year and shit canned 240 thousand people on the payroll.

Actually i misstated. They didn't just make those cars they sold them.

**dex71** · 09-10-12, 04:51 PM

Let's not also forget the simple fact that if GM were to go away, the rest of them would just sell more. It's not like those who would have bought GMs would now be walking everywhere. The other auto manufacturers would have had to expand to fill the gap....and more parts would be needed too.

If our forefathers had clung to the same principle, we would still be propping up wagon wheel manufacturers.