US embassy attacked.

**deathgodusmc** · 09-13-12, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by Xavsnipe

So aside from the front row show...has Obama cut any funding for Israel?

And Mubarak just like Saddam just like Hamid Karzai just like Musharaf just like (insert puppet here) is a crap shoot when it comes to being allies that pull their weight, they´re usually in bed with both sides (the Americans and their side). I´d hardly call them allies.

Obama siding with Palestinians on the Israeli/Palestinian conflict? How?

Just to be clear, I´m no democrat and I´m no Obama nuthugger. I don´t like the guy, I think he lacks experience and I think he tries too hard.

No he hasn't cut funding. I also disagree with you on he tries to hard. Well unless you means tries to hard to duck the real issues. Then i agree with you.

**Fovezer** · 09-13-12, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

As far as the "axis of evil" well i think its a label that should never been used. You label people like that and then tend to follow your train of thought and does nothing to help any future negotiations that need to be done. In reality all it does is hinder progress.

I agree here. It really ingrains that "us vs. them" into the equation which really hurts diplomacy.

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

Iran has had issues like this long before we showed up in afganistan. So its hard to really justify what they do by our presence in the region. Israel doesn't really threaten with war constantly. They do respond to any action taken against them and iran has had its hand in that for a long time.

Iran is not taking any sanctions seriously. They feel once they have a nuclear weapon people will have to bend to their will. Is a bad judgement call on their part. All they have to do is look at NK to see what they think will happen simply will not happen.

You cannot actually believe that us having forces surrounding Iran played no part? That right there is an incredibly powerful reason for them to be afraid. With all the bluster coming from GWB and Israel during the earlier stages of the wars, they had every right to feel threatened.

And yes, Israel is constantly threatening war. Have you heard Netanyahu speak? He is the ultimate saber-rattler and he constantly trying to push the US into backing his insanity.

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

They also know they can only push israel so far before they push back and odds are it will be before they have a nuclear weapon. Israel is losing faith in us slowly but surely and for a good reason in my opinion. I know you will disagree but on a global scale we have not had such a weak leader in a long time. We went from drawling lines in the sand and knocking the crap out of anyone who crosses them to trying to talk our way out of everything. That never works well making a 180 like that.

Now i do not blame Obama for what is going on but i do hold him and his adminstration accountable for dealing with it. Which they really haven't. Turning a blind eye will not stop iran. Imposing additional sanction will not stop iran. Smaking the hand and scolling iran will not stop them. We have crossed a line and if we dont take care of the situation its only going to get worse.

"Pushing Israel"? Really? Israel is basically poking Iran with a stick and hoping that Iran retaliates so they can launch an attack. Israel is assassinating Iranian scientists, Stuxnet, etc. Don't play the "woe is Israel" card. They are trying everything in their power to get a war short of launching an all-out preemptive strike.

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

We will be going into iran before they go nuclear if they dont stop their pursuit of nuclear weapons because we wont have a choice but to do so.

No we will not. No chance. The public is overwhelmingly against a war with Iran, Obama will not initiate a unilateral attack, and what happened to the "zOMG the deficit is so high!"? We should start piling on more debt to fight another war and have more American soldiers die needlessly?

**Xavsnipe** · 09-13-12, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

Im going to go ahead and say something that will probably upset a few here. When we do go to iran it will not be with the UN's blessing and they will threaten sanctions against us. The war will be short but it wouldn't matter how long it took. In the global community we are as sanction free as you can get. The same reason we are in the position we are now is why no sanctions placed on us will be effective. As the largest global consumer at 76% of the products who is going to cut their own throat to make a point to us?

We might as well go right now and get it over with.

Why would you think war with Iran would be short? I´m thinking about the past 2 wars that have been the longest in U.S. history. I´m just wondering where you´re looking at it from.

**Xavsnipe** · 09-13-12, 11:29 AM

Yea I don´t get how Americans that are usually the most affected by war (economically and sometimes physically) are the ones that are first to start beating the war drums.

**Fovezer** · 09-13-12, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by -Lazarus-

Attack Obama

He's the President for Christ's sake! It's his call what we do over in Libya or Yemen or wherever Americans are dying. Of course I'm going to say he's doing a terrible job when he's doing a terrible job! Are you kidding me? If ANY president responded this way I would say the same thing. What the hell is your malfunction that you can't see how fucked up our response over the last 24 hours has been?

And fuck Netanyahu? The man is a head of state. You do NOT UNDERSTAND THE MIDDLE EAST at all. The message of weakness we are sending right now is putting ALL OF US in danger, not just those in some remote consulate or embassy. This is a culture that understands and respects strength, and loathes weakness. And why the fuck is our secretary of state apologizing?!?!? Legitimizing the bullshit reason these guys are using for the attacks? And the state department is not even CALLING THEM ATTACKS!!!!! They are calling them "protests". If someone comes onto U.S. soil and blows shit up with firebombs and wants to or succeeds in killing people, IT IS NOT A PROTEST.

For starters, the lives of those surely killed in Yemen and elsewhere are on Obama's hands. Period. I told you yesterday that if we didn't respond immediately our other embassies would be in danger. We have guys right now, on live TV, standing on the roof of the U.S. embassy in Yemen, burning the flag there. The entire embassy is overrun. I'm sure the security forces there are dead, probably others too. And the White House's statement is that we are "investigating". The guys are right fucking there, right now!!! The President needs to order a strike to kill anyone on the embassy grounds right now, not after "an investigation". We have troops close enough to dispatch a strike team there immediately. Or hell, just drop a fucking bomb on the building - tough shit to the assholes that are there.

This is fucking insane what you are willing to defend Fov.

One last thing. News is starting to be revealed that Egyptian intelligence knew about planned attacks.

Intelligence Warns of Attacks Against Embassies - Global Agenda - News - Israel National News

Maybe if Obama would attend his own fucking security briefings people wouldn't be dead right now. Or, did he know and do nothing? This story is still developing, but we will know the truth. As I said - HE IS THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. It's his job to handle this stuff. And he's doing a horrible job. The economy, and now this? Please Fov. WAKE UP.

Lol. I'll say it again, fuck Netanyahu. That guy is a piece of shit and I'll keep saying it.

And what is fucked up about our response so far? We've condemned the attacks, started flying drones, moved warships, and sent a contingent of Marines over there. What more can possibly be done? You are so blinded by your irrational hatred of this President that you are not allowed to look at this rationally. Whatever response Obama had, you would've said was wrong. These aren't the first times an embassy or consulate has been attacked. It happened at least 11 times under Bush, too, including two attacks against the embassy in Yemen.

Where are you getting your talking points from, by the way? The apologizing thing has already been called out multiple times for being a lie. Romney was taken behind the woodshed for that one. And don't worry, I'm wide awake, which is why I'll be voting for Obama again.

Edit: And about another one of your lies, straight from the Romney campaign, of course, that Obama doesn't attend security briefings:
"About the same time, the Republican National Committee and prominent Republicans such as Dick Cheney and John McCain threw another faulty bit of plumbing at Obama: that the president “does not attend his daily intelligence meeting” more than half the time, in contrast to George W. Bush, who “almost never missed his daily intelligence meeting.” This claim was the work of former Bush speechwriter Marc Thiessen, who writes a weekly online column for The Washington Post.

In reality, Obama didn’t “attend” these meetings, because there were no meetings to attend: The oral briefings had been mostly replaced by daily exchanges in which Obama reads the materials and poses written questions and comments to intelligence officials. This is how it was done in the Clinton administration, before Bush decided he would prefer to read less. Bush’s results — Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction, and the failure to find Osama bin Laden — suggest this was not an obvious improvement. "
Dana Milbank: Mitt Romney’s bucket brigade - The Washington Post

**deathgodusmc** · 09-13-12, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by Fovezer

I agree here. It really ingrains that "us vs. them" into the equation which really hurts diplomacy.

Well at least we agree on something.

Originally Posted by Fovezer

You cannot actually believe that us having forces surrounding Iran played no part? That right there is an incredibly powerful reason for them to be afraid. With all the bluster coming from GWB and Israel during the earlier stages of the wars, they had every right to feel threatened.

It didn't play a part. They were like this before we went. It may be a factor keeping things going but not starting it.

Originally Posted by Fovezer

And yes, Israel is constantly threatening war. Have you heard Netanyahu speak? He is the ultimate saber-rattler and he constantly trying to push the US into backing his insanity.

Chicken and egg argument. I say its in retaliation to iran poking israel and you say its the other way around. The fact remains they are instigating each other and it will not end well for iran.

Originally Posted by Fovezer

"Pushing Israel"? Really? Israel is basically poking Iran with a stick and hoping that Iran retaliates so they can launch an attack. Israel is assassinating Iranian scientists, Stuxnet, etc. Don't play the "woe is Israel" card. They are trying everything in their power to get a war short of launching an all-out preemptive strike.

Please see previous response.

Originally Posted by Fovezer

No we will not. No chance. The public is overwhelmingly against a war with Iran, Obama will not initiate a unilateral attack, and what happened to the "zOMG the deficit is so high!"? We should start piling on more debt to fight another war and have more American soldiers die needlessly?

Yes we will. What public is overwhelmingly against war with iran? I will say your probably right Obama will not initiate an attack. Thats his mo. Sit on the side lines with his head in the sand until he has to respond. However Israel will initiate an attack and at that point there is no more putting your head in the sand. We will enter the war.

The deficit is high and as i said twice now in 2 different threads it can be brought under control and used to fight what we need to. I even gave you and wicked at the time a basic layout for how it can be done.

I'm actually tired of the whole american soldiers die needlessly argument. Especially when it comes from people that never enlisted. Soldiers die its what they signed up knowing could happen and right now knowing its a possibility. If you have never been in the service its pretty hard to grasp why they do what they do. Dont worry about them they know what they are doing. Look at it as a form of population control.

**deathgodusmc** · 09-13-12, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by Xavsnipe

Why would you think war with Iran would be short? I´m thinking about the past 2 wars that have been the longest in U.S. history. I´m just wondering where you´re looking at it from.

But they haven't been. The war on terror is because of its very nature. Iraq was quick. It was the rebuilding and training that took time. Then you have to look at irans actual capabilities. Iraq was a monster compared to iran and we rolled iraq.

**deathgodusmc** · 09-13-12, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by Xavsnipe

Yea I don´t get how Americans that are usually the most affected by war (economically and sometimes physically) are the ones that are first to start beating the war drums.

Aside from the last couple wars are generally good for our economy. That being said unlike many countries this one was born in battle. We're good at it and we have the power to be anywhere in multiple location fighting.

All of that is a double edged sword though. If we go people talk shit about us. If we wait to long people talk shit about us. If we dont go people talk shit about us. So we might as well do what we think is right and let them talk all the shit they want because we all know they're going to talk that shit from far away.

**Xavsnipe** · 09-13-12, 11:45 AM

Get "the war on terror" out of your head, deathgod. If you go to Iraq. Invade. And stay. That war is against Iraq, Saddam or no Saddam, foreign fighters or no foreign fighters. You rolled through the sparse Iraqi military that hadn´t deserted yet. The guerilla? That´s another story. The war on terror is like the war on drugs; they´re utter bullshit and as far as I´m concerned, the U.S. considers both a necessary evil.

What about Afghanistan? Same shit. If there´s still fighting, soldiers dying, that war is still going. Longest wars in U.S. history.

**Xavsnipe** · 09-13-12, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

Aside from the last couple wars are generally good for our economy. That being said unlike many countries this one was born in battle. We're good at it and we have the power to be anywhere in multiple location fighting.

All of that is a double edged sword though. If we go people talk shit about us. If we wait to long people talk shit about us. If we dont go people talk shit about us. So we might as well do what we think is right and let them talk all the shit they want because we all know they're going to talk that shit from far away.

Unlike many countries? What world are you living in? There´s a bunch of countries that have had civil wars, guerillas, paramilitaries. A shitload of countries have been "born in battle".