Thread: Mitt Romney debates himself

Originally Posted by -Lazarus-

I will ask you what I have asked previously. What indicators specifically are telling you that we are on an upswing or that things have improved during Obama's presidency?

And I'll tell you the same thing I said previously. The economy was in a steep downward spiral when Obama took office, and now it's trending upwards again. It's not trending upwards at a steep angle, but it's not getting worse or stagnating. In short, while it's not getting better anywhere close to as fast as I'd like, it is getting better.

As for the specific indicators, I honestly don't have any. I don't watch the stats with an eagle eye, mainly because I don't have the attention span or desire to sift through that kind of raw data on my own. What I'm going on is personal experience, mixed with data analysis done by others (Fox News is watched a lot by others in my household, and I catch tidbits, so I'm not getting my information from "liberal" media) and my own impressions of that analysis.

~Morningfrost

Originally Posted by Morningfrost

And I'll tell you the same thing I said previously. The economy was in a steep downward spiral when Obama took office, and now it's trending upwards again. It's not trending upwards at a steep angle, but it's not getting worse or stagnating. In short, while it's not getting better anywhere close to as fast as I'd like, it is getting better.

As for the specific indicators, I honestly don't have any. I don't watch the stats with an eagle eye, mainly because I don't have the attention span or desire to sift through that kind of raw data on my own. What I'm going on is personal experience, mixed with data analysis done by others (Fox News is watched a lot by others in my household, and I catch tidbits, so I'm not getting my information from "liberal" media) and my own impressions of that analysis.

~Morningfrost

Do you think that trend will continue when the Obamacare tax hits? Do you think that will stagnate that growth at all?

Originally Posted by Morningfrost

And I'll tell you the same thing I said previously. The economy was in a steep downward spiral when Obama took office, and now it's trending upwards again. It's not trending upwards at a steep angle, but it's not getting worse or stagnating. In short, while it's not getting better anywhere close to as fast as I'd like, it is getting better.

As for the specific indicators, I honestly don't have any. I don't watch the stats with an eagle eye, mainly because I don't have the attention span or desire to sift through that kind of raw data on my own. What I'm going on is personal experience, mixed with data analysis done by others (Fox News is watched a lot by others in my household, and I catch tidbits, so I'm not getting my information from "liberal" media) and my own impressions of that analysis.

~Morningfrost

An every economist article i read says it would eventually work it way back up. The question isnt was there a decline or whether or not we are recovering very slowly but do you think is that due to Obama? Personally i feel this has been going on since what 07 and it had to begin to work it way back up. The rate of incline says to me its the people that found their footing not the government picking them up.

Originally Posted by Ranger10

Do you think that trend will continue when the Obamacare tax hits? Do you think that will stagnate that growth at all?

It will come to halt again.

Originally Posted by Ranger10

Do you think that trend will continue when the Obamacare tax hits? Do you think that will stagnate that growth at all?

I honestly don't know. I don't know as much about the healthcare plan as I should, mainly because I haven't been able to find information that's not either horribly slanted by one side or the other. Dems say it's all sunshine and roses, Reps say it's the second-coming of Hell. Frankly, I'm not inclined to believe either one of them. The closest thing to non-partisan information I've seen on it is that it's rather similar to the Massachusetts healthcare program, and people seem to be pretty happy with that lol.

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

An every economist article i read says it would eventually work it way back up. The question isnt was there a decline or whether or not we are recovering very slowly but do you think is that due to Obama? Personally i feel this has been going on since what 07 and it had to begin to work it way back up. The rate of incline says to me its the people that found their footing not the government picking them up.

That's an honest concern, that the recovery might not have a whole lot to do with Obama. The way I see it though, is that the recovery isn't happening in SPITE of Obama's policies. It would've been very possible for a president faced with the crisis we were in to completely drop a ball and allow the nose-dive our economy was in to continue, or even push it steeper. Instead things leveled off, then started to climb a bit again. I do think pertinent regulations on financial institutions helped things work out, as did a few other policies like the bail-outs, for which I have to give Bush some credit for as well, since they began under him. We can argue about whether they were necessary or if companies should've just been allowed to go belly-up, but on the whole both TARP and the other bail-outs can be considered successes.

I do tend to agree with you however, that a lot of our recovery has been because people have been able to find their footing. I just don't eliminate the president from any sort of credit from that happening.

~Morningfrost

Originally Posted by -Lazarus-

I have a question for you about your comments. You just said that at least Obama has shown improvement. Please, specifically describe what improvement you're referring to. Please remember what I said. Be as specific as possible. What improvements have you seen Obama make?

Maybe if you were open minded I would take the time to converse with you. Fact is, I could tell you Obama made the sky blue and you'd find a way to google debunk me so i'll pass. If you can't see improvement in the economy for yourself, than I can't help you.

Same applies to you death, but I'll give you credit you're far more open minded.

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

It will come to halt again.

Yeah, pure specculation. Come on guys, you act like businesses haven't already prepared for this day. Not to mention you're focusing purely on negative ideas, what about positives? Lower healthcare costs? Competition in the insurance industry, should in turn lower your monthly premiums for healthcare. So people who opt out will have to pay a 'tax penalty' as well as people who make $250k or more will pay 'higher' taxes. According to you guys they're already feeding half of America anyways. At least if the poor are getting proper care the wealthy should pay less on their feeding of half of America.

But seriously, you guys crack me up. Day 1 Obamacare is enacted business just stops... lol they've already prepared/absorbed cost.

Originally Posted by Morningfrost

That's an honest concern, that the recovery might not have a whole lot to do with Obama. The way I see it though, is that the recovery isn't happening in SPITE of Obama's policies. It would've been very possible for a president faced with the crisis we were in to completely drop a ball and allow the nose-dive our economy was in to continue, or even push it steeper. Instead things leveled off, then started to climb a bit again. I do think pertinent regulations on financial institutions helped things work out, as did a few other policies like the bail-outs, for which I have to give Bush some credit for as well, since they began under him. We can argue about whether they were necessary or if companies should've just been allowed to go belly-up, but on the whole both TARP and the other bail-outs can be considered successes.

I do tend to agree with you however, that a lot of our recovery has been because people have been able to find their footing. I just don't eliminate the president from any sort of credit from that happening.

~Morningfrost

I cant say i eliminate him from the whole thing. I do believe he could have made things worse but at the same time i really do not believe he contributed much to it getting better. However if something is not done with obamacare before we have a chance to gain a full recovery or damn near full it sure it going to help anyone. All the things it had in it from the start that could help were quickly removed and whats lefts will do nothing but hurt our recovery.

Then i also think just how much worse could it have gotten really? A few hundred thousand more unemployed? A million? Companies still needed employees to function and by the time we hit bottom we were at about bare minimum.

Originally Posted by Hocus Pocus

Yeah, pure specculation. Come on guys, you act like businesses haven't already prepared for this day. Not to mention you're focusing purely on negative ideas, what about positives? Lower healthcare costs? Competition in the insurance industry, should in turn lower your monthly premiums for healthcare. So people who opt out will have to pay a 'tax penalty' as well as people who make $250k or more will pay 'higher' taxes. According to you guys they're already feeding half of America anyways. At least if the poor are getting proper care the wealthy should pay less on their feeding of half of America.

But seriously, you guys crack me up. Day 1 Obamacare is enacted business just stops... lol they've already prepared/absorbed cost.

Yup pure speculation as a business man. Lower health care costs are a myth. Thats not focusing on the negatives. Its focusing on every example prior to it. Not one time in our history has making something mandatory has it brought costs down. Not once.

Your right though companies have already begun prep for obamacare kick off. Most of that prep includes cutting health benefits or increasing the cost of it. One thing a company will NEVER do is absorb the cost. They will spread that cost out to every one else so they are untouched by it.