Thread: And it begins.

Originally Posted by Ranger10

I support a system where companies have a plethora of insuring options, just like any market. It would be a market based solution. If an insurance company doesn't have a plan to cover contraceptives, or the pill, or whatever, then they would be losing business because employers would be looking for coverage plans which included that.

That's the power of the free market.

If your product is inferior, your business will, and should, die to make way for the one which meets the needs. Employers who ignore the needs of their employees won't be in business for long. You could make a strong argument for that concerning Hobby Lobby, and I think that would be a better angle in this case.

Anyway... competition is the BEST way to make sure the price is low, and product is as good as it can be.

See, I could never go along with that. People don't have the luxury of just switching jobs because of insurance, and they shouldn't have to, either. We've already seen companies that provide shit wages and insurance benefits not suffer, and the best example of that is Walmart. I do believe regulations should be in place so that insurance coverage options aren't dictated by the whims of some nutjobs that oppose birth control because that could spread to other people claiming "religious exemptions" to avoid providing coverage for a variety of other things.

But this is yet another reason why I want to move away from the employer-based insurance system because then people wouldn't have to worry about coverage from their job. Institute a Medicare-for-all plan that provides a general level of coverage, and if people feel they need more, let them buy supplemental insurance. Bam, all these problems solved.

Originally Posted by Ranger10

Also,

You're right, faith shouldn't exempt you. But neither should the government be allowed to impose its will on you if your faith prohibits it. That's no different than Christians trying to impose their will in the classrooms, or through gay rights, etc.

YOU are the government. And YOU, the government are telling ME, the faith based business owner, that I have to compromise my faith through a law, aka, Obamacare.

Unlike a Christian organization which tries to affect policy through talking, and demonstration, the government affects policy by saying, "This is law, do it, or we throw you in jail." See the difference?

No one is forcing them to take the pills. No one is forcing you to compromise your personal beliefs. Personally, I think the argument that by requiring you to provide a certain level of coverage to your employees is violating your religious beliefs is specious, at best. It's like when those moronic pharmacists try and claim they don't have to dispense birth control because it goes against their believes. It's a garbage argument.

Originally Posted by Gumby

OT, but yep, that's my favorite toy. My pucker factor in that one is at 150 mph. I have driven other cars faster but they were much larger and heavier. The speed limiter on the stock tune is 160,but I set that at 186. She has the power to get there, but I lack the will.

Back on track, DG, since the system relies on employers providing the insurance, it is not fair for them to get to decide on what is and is not covered. Suppose a company run by a Jehovah's Witness family decided that they would not allow insurance that covers blood transfusions. Are you okay with that? And wouldn't a businessesman be able to say he is a Christian Scientist and therefore he should be exempt from providing any insurance since he doesn't believe in modern medicine? Or a Scientologist could not provide coverage for mental health. Or worse a shrewd businesses may falsely claim one of those just to save a buck on a crappy policy. And just expecting someone who doesn't like it to work somewhere else is not realistic.

Sent from the land of bier and bretzels on my Galaxy S3 using Tapatalk

How is it not fair that the company get to decide what insurance policies they are going to be providing their employees? To be honest i have yet to see a company not offer multiple choices on insurance.

Yes i am ok with your examples. I would take my qualified ass to another company that offer something i find exceptable if my decision was based on it. Just like i did all the way up to starting my own company and choosing my own insurance policy.

Originally Posted by taog

Lets say that Christians had way more control of shit than they do now. Do you really think it would be like Saudi Arabia?

It depends on which Christians had control. If we had more Focus on the Family-types, or more Todd Akins and Richard Mourdocks, then yeah, I think things would be a lot worse.

Originally Posted by taog

I just wanted to say that there are many Christians that think all of that shit is unfair as well. I don't know much about it, but religious scientist get flack for this divine intervention stuff, it isn't always black and white.

And I'm aware of that, and I should have been more specific in which Christians I was talking about. That's my bad. But religious scientists SHOULD get flack for divine intervention nonsense because it isn't science.

Originally Posted by Fovezer

See, I could never go along with that. People don't have the luxury of just switching jobs because of insurance, and they shouldn't have to, either. We've already seen companies that provide shit wages and insurance benefits not suffer, and the best example of that is Walmart. I do believe regulations should be in place so that insurance coverage options aren't dictated by the whims of some nutjobs that oppose birth control because that could spread to other people claiming "religious exemptions" to avoid providing coverage for a variety of other things.

But this is yet another reason why I want to move away from the employer-based insurance system because then people wouldn't have to worry about coverage from their job. Institute a Medicare-for-all plan that provides a general level of coverage, and if people feel they need more, let them buy supplemental insurance. Bam, all these problems solved.

Well, my 401k isn't limited to one company. Any company I go to can pay into it, if they offer it. Yet, the government doesn't own that 401k. Why can't there be privatized insurance carriers that any employer could pay into, yet are still not government owned, or government enforced, and still allow people to make conscientiousness decisions concerning their healthcare no matter who they worked for?

Then its all on the companies shoulders as to which plans they will pay for. If they won't pay for a plan, then that individual has to decide if they still want to work that for that company. That satisfies your stated arguments, as well as mine.

Originally Posted by triggerhappy2005

I pay my taxes to the US government. There for I have every right to weigh in on this subject.

You need to stop the France nonsense. I'm an American citizen just like you. I pay taxes just like you. I simply reside outside the country.

I know you are. Honestly i throw to fuck with you.

Originally Posted by Ranger10

I support a system where companies have a plethora of insuring options, just like any market. It would be a market based solution. If an insurance company doesn't have a plan to cover contraceptives, or the pill, or whatever, then they would be losing business because employers would be looking for coverage plans which included that.

That's the power of the free market.

If your product is inferior, your business will, and should, die to make way for the one which meets the needs. Employers who ignore the needs of their employees won't be in business for long. You could make a strong argument for that concerning Hobby Lobby, and I think that would be a better angle in this case.

Anyway... competition is the BEST way to make sure the price is low, and product is as good as it can be.

Also,

You're right, faith shouldn't exempt you. But neither should the government be allowed to impose its will on you if your faith prohibits it. That's no different than Christians trying to impose their will in the classrooms, or through gay rights, etc.

YOU are the government. And YOU, the government are telling ME, the faith based business owner, that I have to compromise my faith through a law, aka, Obamacare.

Unlike a Christian organization which tries to affect policy through talking, and demonstration, the government affects policy by saying, "This is law, do it, or we throw you in jail." See the difference?

I agree with your entire post but i have to point out your argument for hobby lobby has 1 flaw. Odds are they rely more on minimum wage school kids 90% of the time. So its probably gonna fall on deaf ears.

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

I agree with your entire post but i have to point out your argument for hobby lobby has 1 flaw. Odds are they rely more on minimum wage school kids 90% of the time. So its probably gonna fall on deaf ears.

Probably true in the case of Hobby Lobby, but this has class action written all over it. It'll become a principle thing every business will point to if its upheld.