SCOTUS decides on Prop 8 :D

**deathgodusmc** · 03-30-13, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by Warprosper

Do you know what that phrase means? It means that the government will not set a particular religion for people to follow and they will not restrict what you choose to follow. This was due to the protestant reformation and it's many exiled peoples. This is not separation of church and state. This is just granting religious freedom.

The labels on currency were added during the civil war. If separation of church and state were in fact separations, why did we put that label on our currency? Because there is no such thing as separation of church and state, and there never was..

I believe that this term didn't actually catch on until the later 1940s and the whole busing issue. It's been said in the past by presidents and such, but it was never interpreted to encompass things like marriage and restrictions on marriage.

Yes it has by the supreme court on multiple occasions.

I might as well add there is a long long long line of lawsuits for precedent of separation of church and state and worded as such based off the first amendments phrasing.

**Warprosper** · 03-30-13, 05:22 PM

Then why do we swear on the bible, moments of silence/prayer for lost ones at government functions, pledge of allegiance, label currency/other government documents?

Like I said... It's because there is no such thing as separation of church and state.

**deathgodusmc** · 03-30-13, 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by Warprosper

Then why do we swear on the bible, moments of silence/prayer for lost ones at government functions, pledge of allegiance, label currency/other government documents?

Like I said... It's because there is no such thing as separation of church and state.

I agree its a myth in reality but it is what the first amendment is suppose to do.

**deathgodusmc** · 03-30-13, 05:24 PM

Oh and you dont have to swear on the bible when you go to court.

**Ranger10** · 03-30-13, 05:38 PM

Originally Posted by Warprosper

Do you know what that phrase means? It means that the government will not set a particular religion for people to follow and they will not restrict what you choose to follow. This was due to the protestant reformation and it's many exiled peoples. This is not separation of church and state. This is just granting religious freedom.

The labels on currency were added during the civil war. If separation of church and state were in fact separations, why did we put that label on our currency? Because there is no such thing as separation of church and state, and there never was..

I believe that this term didn't actually catch on until the later 1940s and the whole busing issue. It's been said in the past by presidents and such, but it was never interpreted to encompass things like marriage and restrictions on marriage.

Because when our founders put that piece of paper together, they were writing from the perspective of European nations who warred because their holy leaders were in positions to influence politics. We don't want that here. As a conservative Christian, I don't want that here.

But there is a difference between church and state, which I believe in, and a separation of state and church. I don't want a pastor or priest or rabbi to make decisions about how our country runs itself... but I definitely want my president going to church.

It doesn't matter what religion you pick, it will be used to artificially influence people using the phrase "It's the will of God". This is why you guys hate anything religious in the first place, right? Because of all the harm unscrupulous men have used it for for several millenniums. But NOW you want to retain a portion of that in your government? You want to keep 'marriage' the term, but redefine it to suit your agenda? And how are you different from any of the countless others who have manipulated concepts of the Bible to suit their own purpose?

For decades there has been a war against religion in this country. You took prayer out of schools. You took the Ten Commandments off of courtroom walls. You want to remove "In God We Trust" from our money. You want "One Nation, Under God" gone. You want religion out of every facet of government, except here when it deals with yet another Biblical principle, 'marriage'. Why?

**Ranger10** · 03-30-13, 05:41 PM

That last part is for Frost, Warprosper... I didn't phrase it well.

**deathgodusmc** · 03-30-13, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by Ranger10

For decades there has been a war against religion in this country. You took prayer out of schools. You took the Ten Commandments off of courtroom walls. You want to remove "In God We Trust" from our money. You want "One Nation, Under God" gone. You want religion out of every facet of government, except here when it deals with yet another Biblical principle, 'marriage'. Why?

It should be out of facet of government because it should have never been there to begin with.

**Ranger10** · 03-30-13, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

It should be out of facet of government because it should have never been there to begin with.

Exactly. But that's not the argument everyone here is making. When it comes to marriage, which can reasonably be shown to have come from the Jewish heritage, and which is later the impetus for the Judeo-Christian value of marriage... all those atheistic naysayers which want every form of religious ideology out of government, are fighting tooth and nail for it to stay now.

I can't tell if it's hypocrisy by committee, or inconsistency by design.

**Warprosper** · 03-30-13, 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by Ranger10

Because when our founders put that piece of paper together, they were writing from the perspective of European nations who warred because their holy leaders were in positions to influence politics. We don't want that here. As a conservative Christian, I don't want that here.

But there is a difference between church and state, which I believe in, and a separation of state and church. I don't want a pastor or priest or rabbi to make decisions about how our country runs itself... but I definitely want my president going to church.

It doesn't matter what religion you pick, it will be used to artificially influence people using the phrase "It's the will of God". This is why you guys hate anything religious in the first place, right? Because of all the harm unscrupulous men have used it for for several millenniums. But NOW you want to retain a portion of that in your government? You want to keep 'marriage' the term, but redefine it to suit your agenda? And how are you different from any of the countless others who have manipulated concepts of the Bible to suit their own purpose?

For decades there has been a war against religion in this country. You took prayer out of schools. You took the Ten Commandments off of courtroom walls. You want to remove "In God We Trust" from our money. You want "One Nation, Under God" gone. You want religion out of every facet of government, except here when it deals with yet another Biblical principle, 'marriage'. Why?

I agree with everything except for marriage being a biblical principle. If it were in fact the bible that coined it originally I would agree with you but marriage was around when people worshiped the sun.

**Ranger10** · 03-30-13, 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by Warprosper

I agree with everything except for marriage being a biblical principle. If it were in fact the bible that coined it originally I would agree with you but marriage was around when people worshiped the sun.

I've had this discussion with Kanati earlier in this thread. To summarize, the first contract that even looked like what you would call marriage was around 2500 BC. It's true, Kanati linked it. Before that, or as you put it, in the land of the sun worshipers, it was simply a monogamous arrangement. And the term 'marriage' came from the English word 'mariage' around the 1250-1300AD.

So either by the origin of the Jewish faith, whose millennium old writings predate just about every ancient culture out there, and are the impetus of the Bible, or by the first usage of the word "marriage" by an emerging religious sect calling itself Christian, the concept is uniquely born from the Judeo-Christian faiths.

And if they were praying and worshiping sun gods way back then, does that mean we can worship any god we want now, since prayer and worshiping aren't uniquely Christian?