SCOTUS decides on Prop 8 :D

**Ranger10** · 03-31-13, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by SgtRazor

Ranger,
Holy Matrimony. Far more of a religious meaning now than marriage has.

Yep.

Look, I respect you, and all the things you believe in. If you and your partner were to walk up to me and say, "Hey, meet my husband. We were married two days ago." I'd shake your hand, with a huge smile and congratulate you like any heterosexual couple I'd know. And I would mean it.

Governments don't need to have anything to do with that whatsoever. Lets just let people be, and leave government out of it.

**Ranger10** · 03-31-13, 06:45 PM

Originally Posted by MaFioSo

It's a good point, another way to counter it, is to argue that words are not owned by anyone. The definition or meaning of words evolve and change all the time. i.e. Faggot is now a bad word, when at one point it was used regularly to define a bundle of sticks. You used the word "gay" in your statement, just 50 years ago that word was used to describe happy, now it's used to define homosexuality. All of those people that used the word gay to mean happy long ago, probably do not use it in the same way anymore because it will cause confusion. To counter this argument, the word "marriage" may not be evolving in the same way. You still have large numbers of people who disagree on what it means, and essentially ruling that the term "marriage" to include same sex couples, you are forcing it upon the religious people to accept the new definition. And I understand you're argument of not wanting the Government to be the final deciders on what words mean and how they get used.

They're good arguments, one could also argue that the word "marriage", was once defined by only a man and woman, but over time (just like the word gay) it evolved to be a more broad term, simply defining the commitment of two people. The problem here is that most of us (myself included) use the word "marriage" as a broad term, simply defining a commitment to another for life, while the religious people still use the word more specifically defining the commitment only between a man and a woman.

Pretty much. This is ultimately the crux of the issue and one that even after all the best arguments have been exhausted on either side still remains.

**Kanati** · 03-31-13, 06:57 PM

Originally Posted by Warprosper

Well, somebody ate their power tripeties this morning..

Calm down man.. That was not a personal attack.

I *highly* suggest that when a forum moderator puts on his moderator hat and says to leave the shit at the door that you don't cop an attitude. Maybe it was an attack and maybe it wasn't. It's his job to keep the peace and thus his interpretation to make. If you want to suggest to him that it wasn't, that's fine. Tell him he's "power tripping" and it's asking for vacation time.

**Warprosper** · 03-31-13, 07:13 PM

Originally Posted by Kanati8869

I *highly* suggest that when a forum moderator puts on his moderator hat and says to leave the shit at the door that you don't cop an attitude. Maybe it was an attack and maybe it wasn't. It's his job to keep the peace and thus his interpretation to make. If you want to suggest to him that it wasn't, that's fine. Tell him he's "power tripping" and it's asking for vacation time.

Hey man, I completely understand that, but you can't, no... TPG can't have people holding biased opinions moderating a forum that's heavily debated. Not only does it breed power trips, it suggests a differential power succession and it's not healthy. If anyone was upset at the comment then the comment should have been reported by that individual.. We're all adults here and should be treated as such. The way I look at it is that if white said that at a bar table in response to Ranger's comments I would have said the same exact thing and it would have been ok. It would have been OK because we've known each other for years. We know the condition of our morals, and we ultimately know what we can or cannot tolerate.

Power trip isn't a derogatory comment, all I was doing was stating how I felt about the matter. I felt that DJ didn't understand Rangers point to such an extent that he felt as though he should put his mod hat on and start getting sensitive towards nonsense.

Perfect example here is if I were to be insulted... I wouldn't want someone holding my hand telling someone to back off. I'd do it myself. Being that Frost hasn't had a chance to respond or report should limit the powers that the said mod has in the realm of the said "High Drama" forums.

**DJ Ms. White** · 03-31-13, 07:21 PM

I considered it a personal attack since it was filled with vitriol. If you think I give out warnings on personal attacks to people I have differing opinions with, then you are ignoring warnings I have given across the board (towards Smokescion for one). Further, while this may be the "High Drama" forum, that is not a carte blanche to use ad hominem attacks. That was tolerated in the past, but the stance has changed. The saying "Debate the topic not the poster" applies.

**Warprosper** · 03-31-13, 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by Ranger10

Yet, when I show the same kind of logic that atheists in these forums have been using for years now, the defense is... "Well... it was different, or this term doesn't mean the same thing when _________ happened." Its so incredibly hilarious to watch as each of you, who is apparently upset at my suggestion to make everyone equal, fumble over your own logical fallacies to create new and ever inventive ways to ignore your own logic based reasoning when it suits your purpose.

Yet, if I started a thread in which I felt prayer should be put back into schools... each and every one of you would attack me for pushing religious ideas into a state setting. So I ask you how this is any different, and so far, I've gotten about 5 different reasons, none of which makes any sense when held to the same standards in similar threads on these very forums, from the very same people. It's comical.

Please White, show me where the personal attack is here?

This is what you quoted right?

This is what you're questioning?

I disagree with ranger in a similar way to frost. I do not feel insulted nor do I feel belittled here. I think ranger brings up good points, I think that he has some insight into fallacies on both sides. While I feel he is incorporated into beliefs, I don't necessarily see that as in instigation or a threat or even an insult. To think so would only minimize my own self and i'm not going to do that due to there being no apparent insult in his writing.

**DJ Ms. White** · 03-31-13, 07:34 PM

Its so incredibly hilarious to watch as each of you, who is apparently upset at my suggestion to make everyone equal, fumble over your own logical fallacies to create new and ever inventive ways to ignore your own logic based reasoning when it suits your purpose.

As I PMed Ranger when he asked, that is what I saw as a PA.

**Warprosper** · 03-31-13, 07:39 PM

Originally Posted by DJ Mr. White

As I PMed Ranger when he asked, that is what I saw as a PA.

There has been at least 5 people debating with ranger over what he believes and after he speaks his mind against all it's considered an insult? It's not an insult, nor did I interpret it as being close to an insult.

You need to keep in mind here that ranger is defending his stance in a powerful way, there's nothing wrong with that.. Powerful because he's against a bunch of us, you included. Is it really your judgement to speak for the rest of the people he's referring to? I'm a part of his "each of you" comment and I have no problem with it. His posting and his commentary throughout this topic has been nothing but productive.

**deathgodusmc** · 03-31-13, 07:48 PM

Thats enough gentlemen. Feel free to take it to pm's, mod section, or admin abuse but its over in here or the thread will be locked. Please return to the topic.

**Ranger10** · 03-31-13, 07:48 PM

Thanks War. I appreciate the way you and others like you are defending our privilege to have reasonable discussions in this forum. I thank TPG, and its moderators for allowing us to do so. But please remember, they have a job to do. If White felt I made a personal attack, he is well within his right to ask me to explain it. He and I have been doing so in a more appropriate way through PM's.

I hopefully feel that we're making progress here on what we should expect from moderators, as well as one another, in how we conduct ourselves in this forum.