Thread: SCOTUS decides on Prop 8 :D

I couldn't find a personal attack in this entire thread...Getting very Liberal around here.

Yall remember when wrestling was real? It was better...Remember when Baseball was on roids? It was better. Remember when people stayed in the closet and didn't feel the need to flaunt that their different? Was better then too...

Originally Posted by ~BigTymer~

I couldn't find a personal attack in this entire thread...Getting very Liberal around here.

Agree

Originally Posted by ~BigTymer~

Remember when people stayed in the closet and didn't feel the need to flaunt that their different? Was better then too...

Disagree, I don't believe that is something that you can hide from people and still live a fulfilling life. Obviously their going to want to get married eventually, can't really hide it then.

Originally Posted by MaFioSo

Agree



Disagree, I don't believe that is something that you can hide from people and still live a fulfilling life. Obviously their going to want to get married eventually, can't really hide it then.

I think his point was more toward the prancing around in a pink to-to type. I can live without that as well and to be fair everyone can keep their pda locked up in a closet.

Edit.
And to prove im a hypocrite that goes for everyone but nice looking females. You all can do whatever you want outside together. Just dont be mad when i post the pics on the internet.

Also I don't want to derail the thread but for those of you that are religious, I have a question that I'm really curious about.

I come from a Catholic family, I still take my son to church every Sunday. It's been a long time, but every so often the priest will talk about gay marriage. I don't mind it, I don't have to agree with everything they say. Just last week, he talked about condoms and how they were against our religion, and that we shouldn't stop life from happening, etc.

My question is what was the Church's stance on slavery, jim crow laws and all the discrimination that went on during that time? During those times it was socially acceptable to own a slave, that blacks should not be mixed with whites and that they shouldn't have the same rights as everyone else. So during these times did the church speak out against these things? Or did they, as most people did, think that nothing was wrong? During the civil rights movement did they side with the blacks? During the time of slavery, not all blacks were slaves, so would they actually marry a white woman and black man?

The only reason I ask, is because I see this as a similar civil rights movement.

Edit: The basis of my question is to determine how capable the church is of changing it's viewpoint on something. If they were once okay with slavery and now they're not okay with it, could it be possible that one day they might not object to same sex couples marrying?

My biggest problem with this entire discussion is basically...why is it any of our business? Okay, so being gay is against some religions...I get that. Totally. But if they aren't part of your religion, or part of any religion, then why are we trying to pigeon hole these people into teachings/beliefs that they don't follow and adhere to? Whose right is it to do that?

What impact does it have to allow them to get a marriage of the state/civil union so that the person they choose to spend their life with gets the benefits that a straight couple would - and by benefits I mean everything from healthcare, to death benefits, to simply being able to say "we're together". They aren't getting tax breaks or anything of the sort unless they adopt/have children.

As for the term "marriage" it is really the only commonly used word for the idea it conveys...but other words can convey that meaning. If gay rights activists wanted to help themselves out they would stop using "Gay Marriage" as a the headline and change it to Civil Union or something meaning roughly the same thing without religious meaning ...today that meaning is a social/legal contract telling society that two individuals are bound to each other. It's basically an evolutionary step from constantly fighting for sexual rights to each other.

For those saying that marriage is a religious concept...I don't know if it truly is or not...but the origins of it really don't matter now. Marriage/union is a social and legal contract as well, not just a religious binding. Marriage has evolved quite a bit itself. Families used to arrange marriages...now they don't...men used to be in full control of a marriage...now they aren't...couples didn't have a say in who they married...now both parties do. Just like any other social structure it changes...I fully expect same sex union to be legal almost everywhere in the U.S. within the next 5 years.

To reiterate - my viewpoint on this isn't "Yea! Same sex marriage!" - I realize that like any other group, what is on TV are the extremists. Most people simply want their life long partner to have the same legal/social rights as any straight couple would. I don't see how it hurts anyone to allow them that satisfaction.

Originally Posted by ~BigTymer~

Remember when people stayed in the closet and didn't feel the need to flaunt that their different? Was better then too...

But it wasn't. It sad that people had to hide and still do sometimes so fundamental to themselves. Besides no one is forcing you o go to gay weddings or what not.

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

And how was that so much different then paying people minimum wage and raising the prices on everything so they can never get ahead?

The reason "indentured servitude" was in quotes was because I was referencing slavery. It was common back in that day and age to refer to the practice as indentured service. I'd say that's significantly different than minimum wage and rising prices, for obvious reasons (involving whips, forced labor and death, etc.).

Originally Posted by MaFioSo

Also I don't want to derail the thread but for those of you that are religious, I have a question that I'm really curious about.

I come from a Catholic family, I still take my son to church every Sunday. It's been a long time, but every so often the priest will talk about gay marriage. I don't mind it, I don't have to agree with everything they say. Just last week, he talked about condoms and how they were against our religion, and that we shouldn't stop life from happening, etc.

My question is what was the Church's stance on slavery, jim crow laws and all the discrimination that went on during that time? During those times it was socially acceptable to own a slave, that blacks should not be mixed with whites and that they shouldn't have the same rights as everyone else. So during these times did the church speak out against these things? Or did they, as most people did, think that nothing was wrong? During the civil rights movement did they side with the blacks? During the time of slavery, not all blacks were slaves, so would they actually marry a white woman and black man?

The only reason I ask, is because I see this as a similar civil rights movement.

Edit: The basis of my question is to determine how capable the church is of changing it's viewpoint on something. If they were once okay with slavery and now they're not okay with it, could it be possible that one day they might not object to same sex couples marrying?

The answer is....the Church eventually changed their stance on things like slavery. If you read the bible, it refers multiple times to slavery as a legitimate practice, both in the Old and New Testaments. The Church is certainly capable of changing it's viewpoint on something....but it's generally a very slow process, as is change in ANY large bureaucracy. At some point I hope the Church's viewpoint changes enough to be accepting of homosexuality, but I don't think it will be anytime soon.

And for those who would say that the bible specifically condemns homosexuality....the bible also specifically condones slavery (and also wasn't all that opposed to rape, as long as restitution was made), and yet those things are now condemned. Who's to say the opposite won't happen with homosexuality?

~Morningfrost