Thread: Obama, savior of the common man?

Originally Posted by Morningfrost

I think you're seeing the same dynamic that played out during Bush's terms, to be honest. It's hard to see the real impact of Presidential decisions until a few years down the road when they've actually had enough time to impact us positively or negatively. This played out poorly for Bush, whose policies (many of them, at least) looked good at the time but then a few years down the road began to look worse and worse. In 4-8 years, when the real effects of Obama's Presidency start to become more apparent, that's when you'll see one side or the other admitting they were wrong during his Presidency. It took Bush supporters until years after Bush was out of office and it became apparent just how bad his policies were for them to recant and start saying Bush was a poor President. Yet Obama supporters are supposed to do the same while he's still in office? Bit of a double standard there Ranger.

~Morningfrost

Not a double standard at all... I didn't vote for Bush the second time. I looked at some of his decisions during his first four years, and decided I didn't want him in for the next four. Am I some super smart, political insider which access to information my other GOP aren't? Hardly. But there comes a time when you have to face reality for the situation you are in and take ownership in it. As a voter, however small my voice counts in a state that went red, I still feel that innate sense of ownership in my country to elect responsible leaders to lead it. At some point, those who voted for Obama should either feel the same obligation to stand up and say, "You know what... we were wrong, and we're all gonna have to take a bite of humble pie", then reevaluate why you vote the way you do. I'm not saying you should think about voting for a Republican over a Democrat, but rather to hold your Democratic nominees to a higher standard and picking one that actually has a clue what he's doing.

Obama won because he was black. It was historic and signified a change in thinking of the American people. And I for one and extremely proud of my country for getting to that point. But electing a black man simply because he's black doesn't make him a good President. We're seeing that here. He is a colossal failure, and his policies are going to slowly be repealed or will lead us to economic calamity. If the next black, Democratic President comes in and cleans things up, and starts acting Presidential instead of the coolest guy in the room, then I will applaud him. Likewise, if some WASP gets the White House for the GOP and fumbles around like an idiot with an expensive suit, you can bet I'll be up to my neck in his ass come election time.

I expect my fellow Americans to be the same way right now. I don't think that's too much to ask.

Does this make me smarter than everyone else? Of course not. Yet when I point out that same mentality to other reasonably intelligent individuals regarding the current political landscape, everyone looks around like I'm crazy. You have to admit Frost, Obama is protected from up on high by the media. He is continually protected and cooed in a way that not even Clinton got. So its no wonder he's called "The Anointed One". He's getting a free pass on everything by everyone but Fox News. Which in contrast make them look even more extreme than what some of their views already express.

Which leads me to my next point...

Originally Posted by Morningfrost

Or maybe, just maybe....society as a whole has moved the center, by becoming less conservative....<gasp>

~Morningfrost

I don't think this at all. The media amplifies the voice of a minority of people. That's what TV is supposed to do! But that doesn't mean what's being said is worth hearing! When you have so many media outlets than have abandoned journalism for propaganda campaigns, you create a false sense of what is really being said. There is this perception out there that if the media covers it, then its important. You can tell how unbelievably biased media outlets are to the President (other than Fox and a few others) when they only "news" they ever report anymore is about the GOP are obstructionists. They let Benghazi go after one tiny blurb on page 8. They don't have anything to say about Kermit Gosnell. They don't consider the back peddling about Syria to be news worthy, or the miranda-zation of the Boston terrorist to be big deals. If this were Bush, he would be crucified from sun up to sun down. They ran with gun control for weeks, upon weeks, because every other story out there was damaging to the President, so they avoided it. That's NOT media. That's propaganda.

Surely you can see this. I'm assuming that since you're a reasonably intelligent guy, you can identify when you are being fed a line. Our Democracy hinges upon an informed public, making informed decisions about the election process. But informed by whom?

JFK once said, "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country." It's one of his most famous statements. So you have to ask yourself do today's Democrats still hold to that motto? Here is one of the most influential Democratic Presidents who, in one sentence, subverts today's entire welfare system.

But none of this matters because the media feeds the public what it wants them to know; no... what it wants them to believe. And they go to the polls thinking the GOP are the greedy obstructionists who want to keep them poor and broken. Nothing could be further from the truth. But you can't exactly win elections when people don't hate your opponent.

No my friend, we aren't moving to the left because we want to, we're being forced in that direction by a minority of people in this country with disproportionately loud voices who "educate" our population with what they want us to believe. That's not a transition to a centrist mindset, that's a willful and deliberate attempt to erase what generations of Americans have fought and died for in the name of 'progress'.

Progressing to what? What's on the other side of this fence that is so damned important to tear apart our country? Where are we going? What does the "left" lead to? Are Democrats being told there are 70 virgins waiting for them?

Bah. Nevermind.

Cheers,


AetheLove

Originally Posted by Ranger10

Bush is also looked on more favorably now than he did shortly after he left office. Now, you could make the argument that the same could happen with Obama. I'm not saying the guy is a terrible person, and should be shunned by society, but rather he has been, by in large, worse than Bush in many of the same areas. But there is zero outrage by Democrats.

That's obviously a biased statement on my part because he's not 'my guy'. And I realize there is an inherent biased view when a guy someone votes for gets into office, they want their horse to win. But eventually, those same people who put Bush's head on a spike need to turn that same incredulous and skeptical set of eyes on what 'their guy' has actually done with his time in office. With the free pass Obama has been given on so many issues already, I truly wonder if Democrats are willing, or even capable of, doing that.

I actually can let go many of the issues of Obama's Presidency and write them off as a man looking for ways to improve the daily lives of those he governs if it wasn't for Obamacare. That single piece of ill conceived, poorly constructed and hurriedly passed legislation forces me to ask the question, "If he doesn't know what he's doing here, how can he know what he's doing any where else?". It's all downhill from there.

I have no doubt that if it's warranted, the same people that want Bush's head on a spike will eventually call for Obama's as well. I know that if the final impact of Obama's time in office is negative, I'll be amongst that group myself. I voted for him because....well, of the two options given, frankly I just wasn't sold on Romney. My only option at that point was to vote for Roseanne Barr, but decided my vote should actually count instead lol.

As for the ACA....I can't say I'm a big fan, but mostly because it was an extremely watered down version of what was actually necessary, and a version that doesn't seem to correct what it should.

Also, your opinion that Obama isn't a terrible person that should be shunned by society....don't let Laz see that, he'll take your Conservative Card away

~Morningfrost

Originally Posted by -Lazarus-

One other fascinating thing. The average wealth of all families showed steady growth until sometime during 2007 according to the chart in the article. This was interesting to me because if you had only watched the mainstream media and allowed their political bias to bake your brain for the last 4 years, you'd think that the wealth of all families dropped continually and dramatically before 2008 and throughout the Bush era. Not only that but the graph seems to show that the growing disparity between minority and white families leveled off a bit around 2000 when Bush was elected.

Not saying Bush was perfect, but this certainly paints a different picture than those who said he was a racist or encouraged bad fiscal policies. I became skeptical when seeing this study and what it is saying and so I checked on the political bias of the Urban Institute. To my surprise they have a longstanding reputation as a leading liberal think tank, created originally by Lyndon B. Johnson to help research and develop social policy. Another amusing thing is that in around 1990 it was apparently common knowledge that the Urban Institute was a liberal think tank. Nowadays the left seems to have controlled the message and they are being called "centrist". I have to say, that Saul Alinsky was a genius. A diabolical, ruthless evil genius, but a genius nonetheless.

Much wealth generated up to 2008 was from real estate and construction. Post 2008 saw the fall of the real estate maket, new home construction, mortgage industry, and brought on the recession.

Almost every homeowner was impacted. My home value dropped $35k in one year bottoming out at a $50k drop ($120k drop from the previous owner). Many were much worse off.

Not to mention, the stock market tanked, bringing fown the value of my investment portfolio and retirement fund.

Lets just be careful when referring to wealth during any President's administration because it has a common driver.

Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk 2

Originally Posted by AetheLove

I'm tempted to quibble with you, but I think it would be a waste of time. Statements so spectacularly outrageous will not suffer a quibble.

I don't know where you live, or the local sensibilities of your community. If you travel broadly, please know that some communities would find that statement to be unsupportable on its face and exceptionally offensive in its content.




Put your pride away. You just called him the Token Black President - elected for no other reason than to prove to ourselves that we could do it. You've somehow decided that the majority of people who voted for him did so for reasons completely independent of any factor other than his dark skin.

If that's really what happened, then it signifies no change at all. It's just the same old racist bullshit.

I don't agree with you on what happened.




You have said, more than once, that you think Obama is the worst president ever. I think it's a bit early to judge. He's not even 4 months into his second term.

But I can't think of any way to read these statements as anything other than you insulting more than half of all Americans. You're telling them that the reason they supported him is their own latent racism. None of the other stuff matters.

He only got elected because he's black.

Elected twice. Because he's black.

This thread hurts.

Cheers,


AetheLove

And I'm insulted you would say that. He won the nomination and was elected in large part because he is black. That's not racist. It's a fact. Obama even wrote about how he uses the fact that he is Black to his advantage in his books. He is one of the least qualified and experienced Presidents in history, but apparently it was time for a black man to become President, and to some degree that's ok. However if it had to happen with this particular man, I just wish it had happened during a time of prosperity so all he would have had to do was not screw it up, instead of be put in an position of being a savior which he is not.

It is a fact that you cannot dispute - Obama has put the country in more debt in his short time as President than any other president in history. He has severely damaged our most valued relationships in the Middle East. He encouraged regime change where our terrorist enemies have taken control of governments. He has overseen more wars and combat action than his predecessor. And he has completely, miserably failed to create jobs. Our total public debt to GDP ratio just hit 105%. Obama raised taxes on the middle class and the poor. But the worst thing of all is, he lies about all of it, all the time. Not that he needs to - because who would report it anyway?

The Obama administration has changed long used data gathering measures to make the economy look better than it is, to support the lies. And liberals continue to refuse to admit they were wrong and eat humble pie as was talked about earlier, because they are more interested in gay people being married or settling old scores on social issues than they are in seeing that we elect competent leadership.

Does this have anything to do with him being black? Of course not. Only his being elected over statesmen with twice his experience in the first election was because he was black. The rest is just validation of the inexperience and of course an indication of a lack of character on the part of President Obama.

You have also completely betrayed your politics with your "half of all Americans should be insulted" comment. Don't feign outrage for the rest of us just to prove a point that is moot. We already have plenty of people who will do that and profit from it in Washington. You're better than that.

The way I see it, each of us has a choice. We can either hold our leaders to a higher standard or we can believe the propaganda we are fed daily and sit by as the US fades into also-ran status.

Originally Posted by HeavyG

Much wealth generated up to 2008 was from real estate and construction. Post 2008 saw the fall of the real estate maket, new home construction, mortgage industry, and brought on the recession.

Almost every homeowner was impacted. My home value dropped $35k in one year bottoming out at a $50k drop ($120k drop from the previous owner). Many were much worse off.

Not to mention, the stock market tanked, bringing fown the value of my investment portfolio and retirement fund.

Lets just be careful when referring to wealth during any President's administration because it has a common driver.

Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk 2

You talk about these things like they are weather patterns, random "acts of God" that sometimes happen. They are not. People created these problems and under Obama there are people who are making them worse yet.