Thread: A question about the scandals and the election

Report: IRS Deliberately Chose Not to Fess Up to Scandal Before Election | The Weekly Standard

As has been widely reported, the Obama Administration purposely withheld information during the election last year regarding the investigation of IRS targeting of conservative groups for audit and the insane unconstitutional questions they were asked "under penalty of purjury". Here are a few:

IRS questions | Invasive or appropriate? 20 questions the IRS asked conservative groups | Deseret News

This is a set of questions aimed at those who voted for President Obama. An informal poll, if you will.

If you had known about the IRS targeting of conservative groups a year ago, when the election season was ramping up, would you have still voted for Obama?

If you had known that last year the Department of Justice was wiretapping news agencies and collecting phone records including those records on Capitol Hill, would you have still voted for Obama?

If you knew "the full story" about Benghazi (well some of us knew and some refused to see, but that is for another discussion), like we know now, would you still have voted for Obama?

If your answer is no, you would not have voted for him, do you now regret voting for him? What are your feelings emotionally about this situation and about the Democrats in Washington?

If your answer is yes, you still would have voted for Obama knowing all of this, what would it have taken for you to have not voted for Obama?

I'm sincerely curious as to how liberals or others who voted for our current President are feeling right now about things.

If you had known about the IRS targeting of conservative groups a year ago, when the election season was ramping up, would you have still voted for Obama? Yes

If you had known that last year the Department of Justice was wiretapping news agencies and collecting phone records including those records on Capitol Hill, would you have still voted for Obama? Yes

If you knew "the full story" about Benghazi (well some of us knew and some refused to see, but that is for another discussion), like we know now, would you still have voted for Obama? Yes

If your answer is no, you would not have voted for him, do you now regret voting for him? What are your feelings emotionally about this situation and about the Democrats in Washington? Withholding response because I answered Yes above.

If your answer is yes, you still would have voted for Obama knowing all of this, what would it have taken for you to have not voted for Obama?

A realistic plan for getting the economy back on track and mainly, a candidate that didn't come across as such a money grubbing slimeball. So he has run and been a part of many successful businesses. Well guess what? Business are about making money, and often not about the well being of the people. This is the fundamental issue with the Romney, Busy, Ryan, insert random republican candidate name here tax plans. They never really addressed making the economy better.

I mean, realistically, all politicians are slime balls. They all cover things up. The stuff with Obama is no different than the stuff Bush did. You can't trust anyone, and I get that. The Republicans will ring the Benghazi bell for as long as a Democrat has the office. The IRS thing is bad too... and they won't let it go. This is the same as the Democrats constantly bringing up the Bush policies that bankrupt the country and got us involved in financing two wars. Both sides fucked up, but what I care about is this country being sustainable.

We can smoke screen the REAL issues all day long. Benghazi, the IRS scandal, the gun laws... bla bla bla. The economy of this country is teetering, and we need people in office that are not going to allow it go to farther into the abyss. Romney was NOT that guy and no amount of debate here on this forum of poking and prodding Obama and his flawed administration would change my mind about it. The country made the right decision based on the candidates in front of them.

Originally Posted by HeavyG

If you had known about the IRS targeting of conservative groups a year ago, when the election season was ramping up, would you have still voted for Obama? Yes

If you had known that last year the Department of Justice was wiretapping news agencies and collecting phone records including those records on Capitol Hill, would you have still voted for Obama? Yes

If you knew "the full story" about Benghazi (well some of us knew and some refused to see, but that is for another discussion), like we know now, would you still have voted for Obama? Yes

If your answer is no, you would not have voted for him, do you now regret voting for him? What are your feelings emotionally about this situation and about the Democrats in Washington? Withholding response because I answered Yes above.

If your answer is yes, you still would have voted for Obama knowing all of this, what would it have taken for you to have not voted for Obama?

A realistic plan for getting the economy back on track and mainly, a candidate that didn't come across as such a money grubbing slimeball. So he has run and been a part of many successful businesses. Well guess what? Business are about making money, and often not about the well being of the people. This is the fundamental issue with the Romney, Busy, Ryan, insert random republican candidate name here tax plans. They never really addressed making the economy better.

I mean, realistically, all politicians are slime balls. They all cover things up. The stuff with Obama is no different than the stuff Bush did. You can't trust anyone, and I get that. The Republicans will ring the Benghazi bell for as long as a Democrat has the office. The IRS thing is bad too... and they won't let it go. This is the same as the Democrats constantly bringing up the Bush policies that bankrupt the country and got us involved in financing two wars. Both sides fucked up, but what I care about is this country being sustainable.

We can smoke screen the REAL issues all day long. Benghazi, the IRS scandal, the gun laws... bla bla bla. The economy of this country is teetering, and we need people in office that are not going to allow it go to farther into the abyss. Romney was NOT that guy and no amount of debate here on this forum of poking and prodding Obama and his flawed administration would change my mind about it. The country made the right decision based on the candidates in front of them.

Wow. I saw you said "The economy of this country is teetering, and we need people in office that are not going to allow it go to farther into the abyss". What I don't get is, if that mattered most of all to you, then why would you vote for the President that had raised the national debt more and faster than any president in history, more even than Bush before him? Were you thinking that Romney would actually push for spending more than Obama did? Because Obama spent a hell of a lot, a record amount. Your point there is confusing to me. I'd rather vote for someone who is about making money than someone who is about spending it with no way to pay for stuff. Did social issues play any part in your decision?

Also, are you willing to accept any level of corruption to achieve your own goals for your candidate? You say that Obama didn't do anything worse than Bush, but, well... He really sort of did. This looks more like an extension of any perception of what Bush was doing because, well, this is actually happening. A lot of the stuff that Bush was accused of was conjecture and bullshit, not stuff congress and the Inspector General was literally investigating. Again just confusing to me how your point really applies.

Same answers as heavy up to the last. I would have voted for someone BETTER than Obama if they presented themselves. Romney pissed me off just looking at him. Everything that came out of his mouth smacked of being an outright lie or you could preface it with "I don't really believe this but I think this is what you want to hear." He would say one thing early in the day and do a complete 180 by the time it got dark that same day.

Originally Posted by -Lazarus-

Wow. I saw you said "The economy of this country is teetering, and we need people in office that are not going to allow it go to farther into the abyss". What I don't get is, if that mattered most of all to you, then why would you vote for the President that had raised the national debt more and faster than any president in history, more even than Bush before him? Were you thinking that Romney would actually push for spending more than Obama did? Because Obama spent a hell of a lot, a record amount. Your point there is confusing to me. I'd rather vote for someone who is about making money than someone who is about spending it with no way to pay for stuff. Did social issues play any part in your decision?

Also, are you willing to accept any level of corruption to achieve your own goals for your candidate? You say that Obama didn't do anything worse than Bush, but, well... He really sort of did. This looks more like an extension of any perception of what Bush was doing because, well, this is actually happening. A lot of the stuff that Bush was accused of was conjecture and bullshit, not stuff congress and the Inspector General was literally investigating. Again just confusing to me how your point really applies.

Cut the BS laz. Heavy is not wrong for feeling that Obama was better candidate. Just as you are not wrong for feeling otherwise. There is no reason to assume that one party is completely at fault here. We all know that both the reps and dems have their hands in this cookie jar, and every other cookie jar.

I'm tired of seeing the whole Obama raised the debt, more than anyone. It's a scam... It's a coverup... It's the liberals. Just let people have their own opinions and stop trying to preach the GOP agenda.

Edit... After seeing Kanati's post.. I too would have voted for a better candidate if there was one. Just so happens that in both terms the opposition was laughable.

Yes, Yes, Yes, _____, Romney is a tool.

From my perspective there are three parts to the Democracy. the Congress, the senate and the President. You cannot place full on total blame upon one of these entities for the state of our country, whether you see it dismal or on the up and up. You also cannot place blame on one party for the misconduct in our Gov't. It's possible that one party would have taken us in a different direction, but that direction is unknown unless you can cross the Einstein-Rosen-Podolsky Bridge.

Originally Posted by Warprosper

Cut the BS laz. Heavy is not wrong for feeling that Obama was better candidate. Just as you are not wrong for feeling otherwise. There is no reason to assume that one party is completely at fault here. We all know that both the reps and dems have their hands in this cookie jar, and every other cookie jar.

I'm tired of seeing the whole Obama raised the debt, more than anyone. It's a scam... It's a coverup... It's the liberals. Just let people have their own opinions and stop trying to preach the GOP agenda.

Edit... After seeing Kanati's post.. I too would have voted for a better candidate if there was one. Just so happens that in both terms the opposition was laughable.

Come on man, WTF are you talking about? My response was considered and measured. My questions were perfectly legitimate. Maybe you can provide your own answers to the follow up questions? What I mean is, if the economy is the most important thing, how was Obama the better candidate?

I agree that Romney was not the best opposition candidate, but we'll never know what Romney would have done because he didn't win. And of course as you know I was surprised by his loss, but not for partisan reasons at all. But to look at Obama's economic record and say that the economy was most important and then to still vote for Obama, well that needed some follow up clarification as far as I am concerned. I mean was the fear that Romney would spend even more? Is that even possible? It's a legitimate question.

As for the scandals and behavior - I'm kind of shocked so far with the responses here from the few Obama voters that posted. I mean, what kind of standard are we using nowadays to vote for people? This behavior should never be rewarded with a re-election. I could care less what party someone is affiliated with. Here's what I'm learning so far - until we stop making excuses for these assholes and quit voting them into office over and over again, we deserve whatever the fuck we get. So as weak as Romney may have been as a candidate, how, if you take into account the behavior of this administration, he still wouldn't deserve your vote over Obama just on principle alone honestly baffles me. Not trying to shock or troll. I'm being serious here. How can anyone who would vote this kind of behavior right back into office complain about any of it. I mean holy shit man. Can we just stop making excuses for these guys?

So to me the issue comes down to social issues or blind partisanship or legitimately thinking that Romney would have been worse with regard to the economy. Is there any other reason someone voted for Obama? What would that reason be? Smoken said Romney's a tool, and Kanati basically said so too, but... Both Obama and Romney are major tools! So, I mean really? Is that it? Or is there something else?

Originally Posted by -Lazarus-

Come on man, WTF are you talking about? My response was considered and measured. My questions were perfectly legitimate. Maybe you can provide your own answers to the follow up questions? What I mean is, if the economy is the most important thing, how was Obama the better candidate?

I agree that Romney was not the best opposition candidate, but we'll never know what Romney would have done because he didn't win. And of course as you know I was surprised by his loss, but not for partisan reasons at all. But to look at Obama's economic record and say that the economy was most important and then to still vote for Obama, well that needed some follow up clarification as far as I am concerned. I mean was the fear that Romney would spend even more? Is that even possible? It's a legitimate question.

As for the scandals and behavior - I'm kind of shocked so far with the responses here from the few Obama voters that posted. I mean, what kind of standard are we using nowadays to vote for people? This behavior should never be rewarded with a re-election. I could care less what party someone is affiliated with. Here's what I'm learning so far - until we stop making excuses for these assholes and quit voting them into office over and over again, we deserve whatever the fuck we get. So as weak as Romney may have been as a candidate, how, if you take into account the behavior of this administration, he still wouldn't deserve your vote over Obama just on principle alone honestly baffles me. Not trying to shock or troll. I'm being serious here. How can anyone who would vote this kind of behavior right back into office complain about any of it. I mean holy shit man. Can we just stop making excuses for these guys?

So to me the issue comes down to social issues or blind partisanship or legitimately thinking that Romney would have been worse with regard to the economy. Is there any other reason someone voted for Obama? What would that reason be? Smoken said Romney's a tool, and Kanati basically said so too, but... Both Obama and Romney are major tools! So, I mean really? Is that it? Or is there something else?

open your mind to alternate possibilities, otherwise trying to understand other people by funneling their answers through your thought process is only going to produce the answers you're getting now. If you don't want to understand anyone's answers then quit trolling. It was old long before the election started.

Originally Posted by SmokenScion

open your mind to alternate possibilities, otherwise trying to understand other people by funneling their answers through your thought process is only going to produce the answers you're getting now. If you don't want to understand anyone's answers then quit trolling. It was old long before the election started.

I have a hard time wrapping my head around a vote for Obama as well. Not for lack of trying. I can really understand what Laz is getting at here.

A lot of it honestly looks like a slap at the mean old rich guy. A "getting back at the man" kind of thing, but i know it has to be more than that.

I didn't vote for him (Obama) because i believed he was a corrupt liar, and his attempts to conceal it made it more obvious to me. Now that he is in office i believe my instincts were right. That said, i had similar instincts about Romney. I believe Romney actually has the smarts to get our economy rev'd up, but i don't think he could have handled congress AND the media well enough to accomplish anything. Aside from that behemoth clusterfuck Obama care, and the gun control issues, im not so sure Romney would have governed much differently than Obama. I just dont think he had the balls, or a polished plan to get us where we need to be.

Originally Posted by -Lazarus-

So to me the issue comes down to social issues or blind partisanship or legitimately thinking that Romney would have been worse with regard to the economy. Is there any other reason someone voted for Obama? What would that reason be? Smoken said Romney's a tool, and Kanati basically said so too, but... Both Obama and Romney are major tools! So, I mean really? Is that it? Or is there something else?

Romney was an awful candidate. Your party had no good candidates running. If there was something better being offered, then maybe my answer would have been "no". But the bottom line is, I don't find Obama, the man, was responsible for Benghazi, and I don't find him responsible for the IRS shenanigans. That is my opinion and view, and it wouldn't sway my vote against him any way.