Evolution, Genetics, and Resistant Viruses

**DJ Ms. White** · 05-28-13, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

Oh there's definitely boogie men. How else can you explain boogers on the walls of bathrooms?

That's me and the voices. We're everywhere and nowhere. Shadow and the light. We are....boogiemen.

**WickedTribe** · 05-28-13, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by -Lazarus-

Nope. Wrong. I was crystal clear in my responses and stayed exactly to the subject of our back and forth which was about the question of whether or not life on earth and DNA is evolved or was created. It was only when you started losing the argument because it is so damned unlikely that evolution of complex life forms actually occurred that you tried to change the discussion into an all-inclusive "god did it" excuse for everything that can't be explained. If your question is "Did a creator God create life on earth", science can provide some insight into that. If you want to ask "Why did God create life on earth", well, science will never be able to answer questions like that will it?

Haha, you know, when you have to declare yourself a winner, you probably aren't. You've refused to acknowledge any counter arguments to your claims about the probabilities life on earth arising, and I'm not going to continue repeating myself forever, so in order to keep the conversation interesting, I've moved on to the conclusions that you're making based on your faulty understanding of probabilities. If you want to call that a win, go right ahead.

Anyway I already answered your previous question regarding the possibility that it could have been alien-gods instead of a creator God by referring to the concept of where the more compelling evidence is. Why do you insist on ignoring that?

Which evidence? You haven't presented any evidence for this. You've presented what you think is evidence against evolution, but that's not the same as evidence for god.

You can call God a bunch of aliens, an "intelligent designer" or whatever the heck you want to call Him, but it won't change the fact that evolution is laughably implausible based on the existing scientific evidence and that creation is a far more plausible idea.

Again, it's less implausable than the deck of cards in my hand.

If you want to then move forward and say "Ok, fine. If there's a designer, how do you know what or who the designer is?" We can discuss that but it is an entirely different subject than whether or not genetic material required for life on earth as we know it was created or occurred naturally, and it should be discussed in a different thread.

We can do both. You're obviously not willing to actually discuss your "odds" argument beyond just repeating it, so we're at a bit of an impasse on that front. In the meantime, we can discuss why you assume that, an inability of evolution to explain something is somehow evidence for God.

**Kanati** · 05-28-13, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by WickedTribe

I'm shuffling cards right now, there, I did it. I created a situation that's one septillion times less likely than the one that you're describing. So how, if I just created a situation that is " very, very, very ridiculously remotely possible to have happened on its own" by chance does your, much much more likely scenario, require design?

You're repeating yourself. Let me ask you a question. Are you willing to accept that I can create the ridiculoustly remote possibility that the cards in my deck could organize themselves in this exact way necessary to form the exact deck that I'm holding, or do you admit that a designer must have organized them by hand in that order?

Let me ask you another question - do you think that science teaches that humans were the goal of evolution?

This brings a point I was going to make in the "odds" argument. Lets assume that the deck of cards IS the universe and each shuffle of that deck is the end result of a universe. So that shuffle you just made... did that result in "life" that could then evolve? We're not talking about evolution into humans. We're talking LIFE. Because environment will shape that life and it may well wind up being similar to humans or whatever. But we're going to deal with LIFE in general.

If the result of that shuffle was LIFE... then that's a success for random generation allowing for life. So... lets talk odds now. If alllll of those shuffles of the deck happen. And only one distinct shuffle can result in life, then the odds of it happening are pretty damn slim. But what if it's NOT a single specific shuffle that can result in life? What if life is a LOT more resilient than we know? What if, of those 8×10^67 distinct shuffles one out of every million or so can result in life? Well then the ODDS become a LOT more probable. In fact, it's near a certainty.

**SmokenScion** · 05-28-13, 04:34 PM

Man I'm 2 for 2, I also watched that X-Files yesterday. Silicone based lifeforms. Odds of life. Resilience. I bet nearly every X-files episode has been covered in serious debate in this forum.

**deathgodusmc** · 05-28-13, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by SmokenScion

Man I'm 2 for 2, I also watched that X-Files yesterday. Silicone based lifeforms. Odds of life. Resilience. I bet nearly every X-files episode has been covered in serious debate in this forum.

I bet your right on that.

**phidan** · 05-28-13, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by Kanati8869

This brings a point I was going to make in the "odds" argument. Lets assume that the deck of cards IS the universe and each shuffle of that deck is the end result of a universe. So that shuffle you just made... did that result in "life" that could then evolve? We're not talking about evolution into humans. We're talking LIFE. Because environment will shape that life and it may well wind up being similar to humans or whatever. But we're going to deal with LIFE in general.

If the result of that shuffle was LIFE... then that's a success for random generation allowing for life. So... lets talk odds now. If alllll of those shuffles of the deck happen. And only one distinct shuffle can result in life, then the odds of it happening are pretty damn slim. But what if it's NOT a single specific shuffle that can result in life? What if life is a LOT more resilient than we know? What if, of those 8×10^67 distinct shuffles one out of every million or so can result in life? Well then the ODDS become a LOT more probable. In fact, it's near a certainty.

Life has been found in volcanoes, at the bottom of the ocean, in the dead sea, etc.

There are also sulfur based bacteria on earth as well as in fossil records

**-Lazarus-** · 05-28-13, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by Kanati8869

And I feel the same contempt towards people that say the opposite. Telling me that my "side of the argument" has little validity and low odds of being correct is an insult. In every thing I do I look at facts. As a programmer I deal with logic at a very high level. And when I look at "your side of the argument" I see the exact same thing you do. The "odds" or probabilities where *I* look at them are so overwhelmingly in favor of there not being a god. Not being a heaven. Not being a hell. Not being any boogie men... that someone saying otherwise strikes me as delusion.

If you want to say you take it on faith that there is a god, heaven, devil, etc etc. That's fine. Take it on faith. But when you start trying to apply laws of science and logic to it, you are not helping your case in the least.

Again we're talking about evolution relating to life on earth and the human genome here. And no one has refuted that it is incredibly unlikely that human DNA could be evolved. That's because it is. Incredibly unlikely. A system with a creator requires no such leap of faith in impossible odds having been beaten for us to exist. True the questions of "who is this creator?", "why did he do this?", etc. require more faith to advance. But based on the evidence regarding evolution and the science as we understand it today, to simply conclude there is a creator based on the indications of the scientific evidence requires little faith at all. All the questions that follow, yeah they are tough and require continued scrutiny and ultimately faith. But i there a creator of DNA rather than a chance combination of molecules that led to it? Come on man, that's ridiculous. It is. If we were talking about anything other than God, you would be saying it in chorus right along with me.

**-Lazarus-** · 05-28-13, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by Kanati8869

This brings a point I was going to make in the "odds" argument. Lets assume that the deck of cards IS the universe and each shuffle of that deck is the end result of a universe. So that shuffle you just made... did that result in "life" that could then evolve? We're not talking about evolution into humans. We're talking LIFE. Because environment will shape that life and it may well wind up being similar to humans or whatever. But we're going to deal with LIFE in general.

If the result of that shuffle was LIFE... then that's a success for random generation allowing for life. So... lets talk odds now. If alllll of those shuffles of the deck happen. And only one distinct shuffle can result in life, then the odds of it happening are pretty damn slim. But what if it's NOT a single specific shuffle that can result in life? What if life is a LOT more resilient than we know? What if, of those 8×10^67 distinct shuffles one out of every million or so can result in life? Well then the ODDS become a LOT more probable. In fact, it's near a certainty.

What if my grandma had balls? Would she then be my grandpa? Come on man, you guys are seriously reaching here. :-) What does the science tell us? How about if we focus on that? By the way why do you guys get to leave actual science and scientific data in the dust but if I tried to do that you would all be up in arms about it? lol

**SmokenScion** · 05-28-13, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by -Lazarus-

What if my grandma had balls? Would she then be my grandpa? Come on man, you guys are seriously reaching here. :-) What does the science tell us? How about if we focus on that? By the way why do you guys get to leave actual science and scientific data in the dust but if I tried to do that you would all be up in arms about it? lol

God commanded it that way, not your god but the flying spaghetti monster.

**-Lazarus-** · 05-28-13, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by triggerhappy2005

Humility would infer that one accepts that they could be wrong.

Do you think you could be wrong about god's existence?

I don't believe I'm wrong, no. I also see clearly that the existing science tends to indicate that a creator is likely, when compared to the possibility that this all happened due to chance. The more we learn, the more complex the universe appears. The more complex yet orderly the universe is, the less likely that random events are at play. Logical deduction is a bitch sometimes.

You want to construct a straw man and knock it down, knock yourself out. I have a simple answer.

Now, how about you tell me how the ancient Jews knew the universe was created from nothing. Or how they knew long before science did that there was a great flood. Lucky guesses? Or further evidence of a creator that told them so?