Evolution, Genetics, and Resistant Viruses

**deathgodusmc** · 05-31-13, 08:34 PM

Originally Posted by -Lazarus-

So whose religion is better - yours or mine? Who decides that?

His because unlike god there is at least a somewhat provable model.

**WickedTribe** · 05-31-13, 08:47 PM

Originally Posted by -Lazarus-

Yet we allow things we don't have facts to support them to be taught in classrooms as fact. Speciation in evolution is a perfect example of that, among many other things.

Speciation has been observed, directly in a lab setting.

**WickedTribe** · 06-01-13, 07:43 AM

Not only has speciation been observed, but there's plenty of other tangible evidence of it in our genomes, our resident bacteria, our mitochondria, the fossil record and more. If we had that much evidence of alien cultures or God, we'd be talking about those things as if they were proven facts too.

**WickedTribe** · 06-01-13, 08:25 AM

Evolution in Action: Lizard Moving From Eggs to Live Birth

An interesting article on the current transition of some lizard species from egg-laying to live birth.

**-Lazarus-** · 06-01-13, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by WickedTribe

Evolution in Action: Lizard Moving From Eggs to Live Birth

An interesting article on the current transition of some lizard species from egg-laying to live birth.

Let me get this straight. It's still a lizard right?

**-Lazarus-** · 06-01-13, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by WickedTribe

Speciation has been observed, directly in a lab setting.

I guess at some point you changed the definition of speciation. Because no. It has not. Wow.

**HeavyG** · 06-01-13, 02:26 PM

As someone that is non-religious, I do not really label myself as an Athiest, but I guess others would do so. But I often find myself asking "who the fuck cares?" I mean, I am somewhat intrigued by the sciences and research to discover our origin, but really, I have other stuff to worry about.

I typically stay out of these debates because I find time to be the most precious thing we have, because I do not believe in an afterlife, and I don't want to be on my death bed looking back, saying "I wish I didn't spend so much damned time arguing over something that likely doesn't matter to begin with. I should have spent that time with my family and friends".

But that is just me. Continue chastising one another!!!

**hannibal** · 06-01-13, 04:36 PM

I really didn't want to get involved in this thread, but the abuse of "the maths prove it" is too much for me to bear. So lets list some flaws

1) Mathematics does not prove anything. Statistical modeling doubly so.

The only test for a mathematical argument is deductive validity. As such the argument remains true so long as its assumptions are true. In thought an assumption can remain true for all time. In the real world assumptions can be true at one moment, false at the next moment. Thus we have that even the best mathematical models are only as good as there initial assumptions. With statistics it becomes even worse as we do not have a perfect understanding of the inputs when building our model.

2) Improbable events can occur, even in Gaussian systems.

Taking at face value the notion that evolution is a Gaussian system, (its not but more on that later) the notion that an event is highly improbable does not mean that its occurrence is the result of something other than random chance. Any non zero probability event can still occur. Further in some models having zero probability is not the same as saying the event cannot occur.

3) Evolution is not Gaussian in nature, it is better described as a variation on a Markov Chain

Here we come to yet another problem with the model put forward by Laz, mainly that evolution is not a Gaussian process. The probability of a mutation occurring is based on the previous generation, thus its not an independent event. This is the key to understanding why the probability that humans can exist is much larger than a Gaussian model would suggest.

Before anyone gets there panties in a bunch I am not a statistician, but many in my family are. I do have a BS in Mathematics and I am working toward my PhD in Mathematics. Laz, the problem yet again as I can identify it is your predisposition to conformation bias, which we all share as human beings.

-H

**WickedTribe** · 06-01-13, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by -Lazarus-

I guess at some point you changed the definition of speciation. Because no. It has not. Wow.

What do you think the definition of speciation is?

**WickedTribe** · 06-01-13, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by HeavyG

As someone that is non-religious, I do not really label myself as an Athiest, but I guess others would do so. But I often find myself asking "who the fuck cares?" I mean, I am somewhat intrigued by the sciences and research to discover our origin, but really, I have other stuff to worry about.

I typically stay out of these debates because I find time to be the most precious thing we have, because I do not believe in an afterlife, and I don't want to be on my death bed looking back, saying "I wish I didn't spend so much damned time arguing over something that likely doesn't matter to begin with. I should have spent that time with my family and friends".

But that is just me. Continue chastising one another!!!

I don't understand comments like these. If you don't care, then don't include yourself in the discussion. I do care. I think that non-science and pseudoscience does a lot of harm in the world. Animals go extinct because their horns are thought to have medicinal value, people are killed for practicing witchcraft, etc. South Africa has a baby rape problem, because local lore teaches that sex with a virgin will cure HIV. Ignorance is harmful stuff.

On top of that, having large swaths of scientifically illiterate populations harms us economically and culturally as a country.