Thread: Welcome to our Post-Constitutional America.

Like I previously stated. Using drug dogs in order to gain probable cause is ILLEGAL.

Originally Posted by -Lazarus-

The border patrol arm of DHS is also Reports from south Texas are that the checkpoints are moving further and further inland. Some have been reported up to 100 miles from the border.

The "up to 100 miles" comes from DHS (US Customs and the Border Patrol, probably also Immigration Services) claiming that the border is anywhere within 100 miles of the external boundary of the US.

When I think about illegal border crossings from Mexico I kinda, almost, sorta think that's not crazy. Patrolling for illegal immigration can't be an easy thing, and absent a 100X increase in border agents there's gonna be situations where you won't catch people right at the border.

But this interpretation has resulted in this map:

Know Your Rights: Constitution Free Zone - Map | American Civil Liberties Union

[other links:
Fact Sheet on U.S. "Constitution Free Zone" | American Civil Liberties Union
Are You Living in a Constitution Free Zone? | American Civil Liberties Union]

Consider that map... for example, there are no parts of Michigan or Massachusetts that are not part of the border.

By the DHS interpretation the Border Patrol has the same powers to detain a resident of Burlington, Vermont, as they do someone coming through a cut-fence on the Arizona/Mexico border. They can search - for no reason at all - a resident of Lynchburg, Virginia.

Green Bay, Wisconsin and Augusta, Georgia are part of the border. My understanding is that DHS is claiming they can - without probable cause - detain, question, and search anyone going to a Packers game or The Masters tournament.

I'm not given to conservo-hysteria, but I agree that this is a real problem. This is a result of the paranoia and power-grab post 9/11. I also think that this won't get better until more people start making a real stink about this absurd authority.

But this is old news. To all the "liberty" groups that are banging on about Obama I ask: Where the fuck were you in 2003, 4, and 5? Some of us were fighting not to give an inch, and now you want to reel-in the mile we lost?

So I guess that having Obama as president has had at least one positive effect: it's allowed liberty-minded conservatives to come out of hiding and make a big noise about federal authority run amok. It was hard during the Bush years for anyone to oppose the insane increase in security because "What about the Children?", "Don't let the Terrorists Win!", and "Support our Troops!"; and even harder for people who were Bush supporters (or Republicans who were just happy to not have another Dem as president).

Or maybe I just dreamed it all.

Cheers,


AetheLove

Originally Posted by Hocus Pocus

Nope, I don't have a problem rolling down my window so people can see I'm not in the wrong. I have no desire to sit there and argue with someone over something stupid. He was being a punk IMO for the simple fact all he had to do was play nice. Regardless of if the cop is right not a DUI stop is not the place to get in an argument with the law. It was simply his attempt to stick it to the man. You guys get all fired up about losing rights increased checkpoints this and that. But the minute someone is effected by the result of law enforcement not controlling the situation you turn around an stick it to them again. Law enforcement is damned If they do and damned if they don't.

Glad I don't have a problems living in Mexico / china? Okay? Why cause I don't get bent out of shape on isolated incidents? How many arrests are made annually at DUI stops? How many illegals are seized at check points , how man pounds of drugs are seized at check points ? How many stolen vehicles are recovered from random stops? You guys aren't concerned with the outcome. You're more concerned with using every incident to display your distaste with the government. You only see the negative, there are two side you know.

How many of you know people in law enforcement? You talk with them regularly ? What do they think of these situations?

What you think of the Officers comment "he's innocent and knows the law"?
You think that's fucked up or him just controlling the situation?
Yeah Bummer that cops get shot, Bummer that part of the Job is dealing with scum bag's. Bummer that some people die in recycling plants, and on railroads.

Originally Posted by Hocus Pocus

Nope, I don't have a problem rolling down my window so people can see I'm not in the wrong. I have no desire to sit there and argue with someone over something stupid. He was being a punk IMO for the simple fact all he had to do was play nice. Regardless of if the cop is right not a DUI stop is not the place to get in an argument with the law. It was simply his attempt to stick it to the man. You guys get all fired up about losing rights increased checkpoints this and that. But the minute someone is effected by the result of law enforcement not controlling the situation you turn around an stick it to them again. Law enforcement is damned If they do and damned if they don't.

Glad I don't have a problems living in Mexico / china? Okay? Why cause I don't get bent out of shape on isolated incidents? How many arrests are made annually at DUI stops? How many illegals are seized at check points , how man pounds of drugs are seized at check points ? How many stolen vehicles are recovered from random stops? You guys aren't concerned with the outcome. You're more concerned with using every incident to display your distaste with the government. You only see the negative, there are two side you know.

How many of you know people in law enforcement? You talk with them regularly ? What do they think of these situations?

I'm friends 20 years with a deputy U.S. Marshall, 12 years with an FBI agent who works in FBI Counter-Terrorism (a real-life Jack Bauer type) and a whole slew of local police officers from various cities for many years. Most every one of them knows someone or multiple people like this guy in the video you referenced. But that is beside the point completely. The point is that these guys who ARE like this feel empowered to be that way.

I understand that there are two sides, but the absolute stone cold fact is that the guy you are disparaging and calling names should not have been stopped in the first place, let alone searched. So you want to allow your rights to be trampled, well, most of us don't. And only some of us are willing to peacefully resist these efforts to exert a tyrannical level of power over us. And that's why it continues. Until we all say ok enough, they will keep on truckin'.

So I have to ask you, what is your line in the sand? What the hell will someone have to do to make you say "Ok now you are going too far"?

Cops on your property shooting at you as an innocent man?
Police Shoot & Kill Grandfather While Responding To Burglary Call « CBS Dallas / Fort Worth
Florida cops kill innocent man at his own home ? RT USA
Man Dies in Police Raid on Wrong House - ABC News

Cops shooting at you during what you think is a routine traffic stop?
Women Delivering Newspapers Shot in Search for Dorner | KTLA 5

Anal cavity search by the side of the road?
Kelly Helleson: Female trooper who performed roadside body cavity searches on two women wearing same glove indicted on two counts of sexual assault and official oppression | Mail Online

You tell me? What will be your line that will not be crossed?

Originally Posted by -Lazarus-

Right on Scott. As I said previously in my last response to Trigger, it's a problem from top to bottom, and it needs to be stopped.

Wrong. It is starting at the bottom. The POTUS isn't sitting around rubbing his hands together saying "Yes, how can I violate the citizens lives this week?"

I am not saying he doesn't care or doesn't know. But I am saying that there is a finite amount of resouces available to uphold the law and better protect our people from assholes that try to bend and break the rules.

Most people are inherintly good... But there are bad eggs out there that can make our lives difficult... Such as Republicans.

I keed... Mostly, about the Republicans...

Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk 2

Originally Posted by AetheLove

The "up to 100 miles" comes from DHS (US Customs and the Border Patrol, probably also Immigration Services) claiming that the border is anywhere within 100 miles of the external boundary of the US.

When I think about illegal border crossings from Mexico I kinda, almost, sorta think that's not crazy. Patrolling for illegal immigration can't be an easy thing, and absent a 100X increase in border agents there's gonna be situations where you won't catch people right at the border.

But this interpretation has resulted in this map:

Know Your Rights: Constitution Free Zone - Map | American Civil Liberties Union

[other links:
Fact Sheet on U.S. "Constitution Free Zone" | American Civil Liberties Union
Are You Living in a Constitution Free Zone? | American Civil Liberties Union]

Consider that map... for example, there are no parts of Michigan or Massachusetts that are not part of the border.

By the DHS interpretation the Border Patrol has the same powers to detain a resident of Burlington, Vermont, as they do someone coming through a cut-fence on the Arizona/Mexico border. They can search - for no reason at all - a resident of Lynchburg, Virginia.

Green Bay, Wisconsin and Augusta, Georgia are part of the border. My understanding is that DHS is claiming they can - without probable cause - detain, question, and search anyone going to a Packers game or The Masters tournament.

I'm not given to conservo-hysteria, but I agree that this is a real problem. This is a result of the paranoia and power-grab post 9/11. I also think that this won't get better until more people start making a real stink about this absurd authority.

But this is old news. To all the "liberty" groups that are banging on about Obama I ask: Where the fuck were you in 2003, 4, and 5? Some of us were fighting not to give an inch, and now you want to reel-in the mile we lost?

So I guess that having Obama as president has had at least one positive effect: it's allowed liberty-minded conservatives to come out of hiding and make a big noise about federal authority run amok. It was hard during the Bush years for anyone to oppose the insane increase in security because "What about the Children?", "Don't let the Terrorists Win!", and "Support our Troops!"; and even harder for people who were Bush supporters (or Republicans who were just happy to not have another Dem as president).

Or maybe I just dreamed it all.

Cheers,


AetheLove

Ae, again, this isn't about the past. You didn't know me then and I didn't know you. And frankly you have no idea what I was saying or not saying back then, and you probably don't know about what many other people on here were saying either. Either way it is irrelevant. This isn't just about Obama, though given the AMAZING level of corruption and incompetence now being demonstrated at the White House and the agencies it oversees, there is no question he deserves plenty of blame.

It's about all of those people who continue to grow government. This is what it looks like. For what it's worth, I was complaining too back when Bush was around, but for completely different and also consistent (for me) reasons. I stopped giving campaign contributions. I wrote my Republican representatives. And here in Texas at least, we are washing out these Republican fools who went along with the big government, pro tyranny movement that began in 2001. The Democrats complaining about loss of liberty during the bush years, most of them could have given a shit. They were in it to make Republicans look bad and win elections. My evidence of this? Look who they pushed and got elected. As was said earlier here by someone - meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

So I have a suggestion for you, with respect. Stop living in the past and open your eyes more fully to the present. Because the problems described are worse now than they have ever been, especially at the Federal level. And people are by and large just taking it in the shorts and not complaining.

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

So your saying a bit of liberty sacrificed is justified? He had every right to be a punk because what they were doing was illegal. Why is it people think you should just blindly do whatever your told or your a punk/douche?

When you see an orange cone on the side of the road do you dodge it, or do you just run over it because you think it's purpose is revocable?