Thread: Reasonable Gun restrictions - need some help here...

Originally Posted by Alundil

I'll simply say that the last time(s) gun threads have been brought up the data and analysis I provided was completely ignored so that both sides of the argument could continue to ignore the various realities about gun death, gun violence, gun murders and how that is quantified and qualified by the various groups and international entities that collect and report on this data.

Note: there are few if any agreed upon standards of what IS gun murder in all of the collected data from around the globe.

This means that, other than discussions related to relatively homogenous areas, societies, cultures, jurisdictions the data does not offer good comparisons between various nationalities.

That said, it it's undeniable that gun murders, as defined in the US, are also on a steady decline.

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This

Remove gang violence from the statistics and things look way different. I could care less if gang bangers are killing gang bangers. Either way, taking guns away from law abiding citizens is not going to do anything but make things worse.


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Originally Posted by Nuckle

This

Remove gang violence from the statistics and things look way different. I could care less if gang bangers are killing gang bangers. Either way, taking guns away from law abiding citizens is not going to do anything but make things worse.


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It's not even just gang on gang violence that I'm referring to though.
It's more to do with the fact the most countries do not use the same reporting metrics that we do (and not even all of our reporting is uniform). There's also the issue of different jurisdictions define murders differently so there terminology is nit uniform either.

This all adds up to the....sweeping generalizations about this data cannot be made with any degree of certainty or accuracy. They can be pointed to as references (and by the way I think our gun murder rate, as we define, it is too high) and tools to track metrics and trends locally. But are not useful globally as anything other than pissing matches.

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What are we talking about here? Should "law abiding citizens" be able to own guns?

You know, convicted felons were once "law abiding citizens"; right before they got caught (mind you, not before they decided to commit a crime; the getting caught part is where the statistics begin to rack up. How many unsolved gun crimes do we have in the U.S.?)

Statistics can be manipulated in every which way you want it to if it helps your agenda.

This is a ridiculous discussion; gun ownership will never be eliminated. Guns will never be eliminated from the streets and they will never be taken away from "law abiding citizens".

Personally I have a problem with anyone owning guns. I would love it if NOBODY had guns...not criminals, not "law abiding citizens".

But that´s just not reality. Guns will never go away.

The problem is criminals are people too. They were "law abiding citizens" sometime in their lives. People will always fuck up somewhere down the line.

Originally Posted by Xavsnipe

Personally I have a problem with anyone owning guns. I would love it if NOBODY had guns...not criminals, not "law abiding citizens".

What is the downside to that argument though?

Also, it's not unrealistic because "guns"; It's unrealistic because throughout human history people have found uses for any ways of owning many types of weapons/tools that had been previously only held by military regardless of what they were.

Why you are surprised or think it's unique to guns is beyond me.

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Well, you know, there´s this thing called Civilization? Many primitive tools are discarded for better, more progressed methods. I consider guns to be primitive tools that should be discarded altogether for the betterment of mankind.

I´m not surprised or think it´s unique to guns; we´re discussing guns, that´s why I´m referring to guns.

Lots of things are beyond you, Alundil

That´s precisely and exactly what I mean Civilwarts. How do we understand each other so well? mmmm