Thread: Illegal Haitians allowed temporary stay in the US

If any of you grew up in a third world country eating mud for sustenance (literally) I'm sure you would do anything you could to get yourself and your family to a better place. I can understand frustration that comes with this topic, but basic human instinct drives this.

For those who think they would hypothetically take the "noble" way out and not try to gtfo of a place like that....have fun. You can go ahead and rot in a third world place like that and be part of the herd that gets thinned, I'd be clawing my way through the water/desert whatever.

As far is this woe is me and my precious taxpayer dollar, consider that the top 50% of our country pays 97% of the taxes. The top 25%, around high 80%'s. The bottom 50% pay 3%....so theoretically half of this thread doesn't have a bone to pick financially anyways, we live for free in this country.

And if by some chance you are in that small top bracket you probably care more about having cheap labor for your business, cheap construction for your houses, cheap agriculture, etc. than illegal immigration.

Besides, collect income taxes from all those illegals and its a drop in the bucket. Most of them would be paying more in sales tax than income tax anyways, which they already do since sales tax is assessed on purchase and not avoidable.

Am I a illegal immigration sympathizer? Negative. Do I think its often overblown, especially in border states as an easy scapegoat? fo sho.

Quick note: Almost every American is an illegal immigrant. In fact you could make the argument that everyone here is an llegal immigrant.

What about the spread of disease? I always thought that a big part of making people register was to help slow down the spread of flu, small pox plague etc.? This illegal argument goes the same way just about every time on these forums. Anyone that thinks it is OK for people to enter our country illegally has brain damage.

Either you are allowed to be here or you are not. I do not blame anyone for trying but I am 100% pro shipping their asses back and improving ways to keep them out. If we get too lazy protecting our boarders we are in serious trouble.

Originally Posted by Red_Lizard2

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

It's all good we dont have to agree im fine with that. Just tired of the bs associated with illegals trying to kill every legitimate businessmen. If it wasn't for them i wouldn't doing jobs at the same rates they've been at for the past 15 years. Now job shops are trying lower the wages because they have someone willing to do the job for less. Couple more months of this shit and im going to be following crews around with INS on speed dial. There is an upside to that though. For every report on a crew that should have workers comp and doesn't i get 10 grand. I may have found my new calling.

so....why not go after the businesses/people hiring illegals? You want to crack down on illegal immigration, start by doing it on the employers. Don't know about you, but i'd be less likely to come to a country where i won't be able to get a job.

Granted though, if we did that, then its "government interference" in the market

I agree with you 100%. Crack down on both instead of this fake bullshit they have going on.

Originally Posted by rock_lobster

Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK!

If you want to have sympathy (which i dont) have it for the ones that were actually in their country not the fuckers who jumped boat and came here illegally.

Yeah, but you and I don't know the situation that caused them to come here illegally. How'd you feel if you had to leave home, go to place where you don't speak the language, and find a way to scrape out a living?

Yeah, yeah, you'd apply for citizenship and all that, but it's easy to say you'd do something while standing or sitting safe in your own home with food on the table and blah blah blah.

Just something I don't agree with you on :P

When looking at it from both perspectives, if I were a haitian, I would most likely do whatever it took to get to a place where I can live free and give my family a fighting chance for success (in this case, the United States). I don't fault them for trying to give their family a better life. Sometimes the time it requires for the paperwork to be done is just too long in their minds, so I can see where they are coming from.

Conversely, from the point of view of the United States and its citizens, this is a country set up with a system in place. Having foreigners here illegally undermines the system and hurts the members of said system (in both the long and short term). Illegals are using our educational system, hospitals, etc... without any compensation being paid. Basically they are taking out and not putting anything back in, which hurts the individuals of the system who are going about their business correctly.

So really we could argue that the system is faulty or that illegals are exploiting the system, or both.

Almost like the stealing bread to feed your family analogy.

Exactly jow to do figure the system is fault? All the laws are in place and being broken. Thats not a fault system thats adding a bunch of criminals to the equation.

Originally Posted by rock_lobster

Originally Posted by Red_Lizard2

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

It's all good we dont have to agree im fine with that. Just tired of the bs associated with illegals trying to kill every legitimate businessmen. If it wasn't for them i wouldn't doing jobs at the same rates they've been at for the past 15 years. Now job shops are trying lower the wages because they have someone willing to do the job for less. Couple more months of this shit and im going to be following crews around with INS on speed dial. There is an upside to that though. For every report on a crew that should have workers comp and doesn't i get 10 grand. I may have found my new calling.

so....why not go after the businesses/people hiring illegals? You want to crack down on illegal immigration, start by doing it on the employers. Don't know about you, but i'd be less likely to come to a country where i won't be able to get a job.

Granted though, if we did that, then its "government interference" in the market

I wouldn't say it's government interference with the market. If the market is being influenced illegally, then something needs to be done. And I thought we already were at the point where we couldn't get jobs.

Yeah there are a lot of flooring installer that have gone belly up but i have spent a long time in the trade and have a well known name in it for quality. So the only part i feel is no raises and instead of being booked 3 months out i'm booked 2 weeks out.

Originally Posted by Langrad

I think its the best thing to do. Deathgod you gotta realize right now there aint shit over there. Housing? Gone. Hospitals? Gone. Law and order? MIA. Food, water, shelter (you know the three things youv been taught that people need to survive since you were like 5) Gone.

Also how would having more legal aliens lower our taxes? Just started my job as tax preparer and iv noticed that alot of the poor families have many children. If they are legal they get a big juicy tax rebate, EIC (Earned Income Credit), and Child Tax Credit. If they are illegal then that makes them ineligible for the credit. So technicly it would be better if they were all aliens for your tax desires. Im sure your going to point out that they dont really pay much in taxes but at the same time with the amount they are earning they would actualy get a rebate if they did pay taxes. A single person filing gets like 3500 tax back but pays 0% if they earned below 5,000 or so (probably more). If everyone was legal then the government would have to raise taxes or lower rebates which would just increase the amount we pay.

Because they are illegal it is impossible to know. Depending on where you look i've seen number of estimated illegals population anywhere from 12 million to 200 million. Pretty wide range so anything would be a stab in the dark. As for the tax breaks verses them not getting them i have this to say. I know many illegals that use fake SSN and file tax returns to get that extra money. So i just dont see your side holding much water at the moment.

Originally Posted by Captain Coors

If any of you grew up in a third world country eating mud for sustenance (literally) I'm sure you would do anything you could to get yourself and your family to a better place. I can understand frustration that comes with this topic, but basic human instinct drives this.

For those who think they would hypothetically take the "noble" way out and not try to gtfo of a place like that....have fun. You can go ahead and rot in a third world place like that and be part of the herd that gets thinned, I'd be clawing my way through the water/desert whatever.

As far is this woe is me and my precious taxpayer dollar, consider that the top 50% of our country pays 97% of the taxes. The top 25%, around high 80%'s. The bottom 50% pay 3%....so theoretically half of this thread doesn't have a bone to pick financially anyways, we live for free in this country.

And if by some chance you are in that small top bracket you probably care more about having cheap labor for your business, cheap construction for your houses, cheap agriculture, etc. than illegal immigration.

Besides, collect income taxes from all those illegals and its a drop in the bucket. Most of them would be paying more in sales tax than income tax anyways, which they already do since sales tax is assessed on purchase and not avoidable.

Am I a illegal immigration sympathizer? Negative. Do I think its often overblown, especially in border states as an easy scapegoat? fo sho.

Basic human instinct is not to jump boarders. It is to survive. Which mean beg steal borrow whatever it takes to survive. Did you notice it didn't say to move. Everyone that is here legally does have a bone to pick. Illegals get benifits that should go to someone that is less fortunate and a legal citizen. They put money into the system so when times are tough they should be the ones reeping the benefits of the system not someone that has not put a damn thing into it.

You think it's over blown? Quite obviously you are in a job that isn't effected by illegals. Try it sometime then come back and let us know how it went.


Forgot to address your claim on collecting income tax and sales tax. There is a difference there as well. You do realise we all pay income tax and sales tax? So how does letting them off the hook for one make the situation any better? It doesn't it leaves us holding the check when they should of been paying for their own meal.

Originally Posted by Langrad

Quick note: Almost every American is an illegal immigrant. In fact you could make the argument that everyone here is an llegal immigrant.

Um i would like to see how you came to this theory.

Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK!

Why is it our problem if they have a job when they get home or not?

It isn't, and given how shitty things are there, I'm sure they'll be able to get a job real fast, even if it's just hauling rocks and bodies from point A to point B. Doesn't mean you can't have a little sympathy for them.

The people have reverted to eating mud cookies a couple of years ago,............ how do you expect there to be jobs on an island where the populace eats dirt because they can't afford anything else?