Thread: Illegal Haitians allowed temporary stay in the US

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

Originally Posted by rock_lobster

Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK!

If you want to have sympathy (which i dont) have it for the ones that were actually in their country not the fuckers who jumped boat and came here illegally.

Yeah, but you and I don't know the situation that caused them to come here illegally. How'd you feel if you had to leave home, go to place where you don't speak the language, and find a way to scrape out a living?

Yeah, yeah, you'd apply for citizenship and all that, but it's easy to say you'd do something while standing or sitting safe in your own home with food on the table and blah blah blah.

Just something I don't agree with you on :P

When looking at it from both perspectives, if I were a haitian, I would most likely do whatever it took to get to a place where I can live free and give my family a fighting chance for success (in this case, the United States). I don't fault them for trying to give their family a better life. Sometimes the time it requires for the paperwork to be done is just too long in their minds, so I can see where they are coming from.

Conversely, from the point of view of the United States and its citizens, this is a country set up with a system in place. Having foreigners here illegally undermines the system and hurts the members of said system (in both the long and short term). Illegals are using our educational system, hospitals, etc... without any compensation being paid. Basically they are taking out and not putting anything back in, which hurts the individuals of the system who are going about their business correctly.

So really we could argue that the system is faulty or that illegals are exploiting the system, or both.

Almost like the stealing bread to feed your family analogy.

Exactly jow to do figure the system is fault? All the laws are in place and being broken. Thats not a fault system thats adding a bunch of criminals to the equation.

Well we have a "system" set up in place to ensure that illegals do not enter the country without following proper procedures. Well we all know that it doesn't work 100% of the time; and since it has become quite the problem lately, I would imagine we could add something to the current system to ensure that we are at least getting something financially from the illegals to put into the system so that when people who actually need to take something out of it, it's there for them. This is one of the benefits of a national sales tax.

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

Originally Posted by Langrad

Quick note: Almost every American is an illegal immigrant. In fact you could make the argument that everyone here is an llegal immigrant.

Um i would like to see how you came to this theory.

I would like to direct your attention to American History and a little rhyme. In 1842 Columbus crossed the ocean blue. Holy shit he IMMIGRATED from Europe to what is now known as America. But wait langrad, you might say, what about those native Americans? Well they also immigrated from Russia (and from other parts before hand). So technically everyone, here, and almost everywhere, are immigrants if you look back far enough.

On to taxes! Here's what happens. The government gets the taxes puts them on a reel and ships them to IRS land. There they are combined with the GOVERNMENTS personal reel of SSN and personal data. This is a closed system. Outside information cant be entered. So fake SSN's while fooling the accountant crunching the numbers cant snake their way into the system. Now PERHAPS they found an accountant who isnt very ethical and is willing to falsify personal information saying that Bob whitey mcwhite social of 123-45-6789 lives where Mr. Illigal lives. He could then add the information from the aliens return to Bobs so when bob (who could be dead since the government might not keep track of that as well as SSN's) files the money is sent to Mr. Illigal.

So technicly they could get money but if the company that is paying them gets audited or they get audited it will come back in a big chain of shit for everyone involved. Accountant looses his practice and anything with his companies name attached gets examined. Company gets examined along with the rest of their employees, and the IRS goes and digs up poor bobs grave to examine him to make sure hes dead.

Originally Posted by rock_lobster

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

Originally Posted by rock_lobster

Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK!

If you want to have sympathy (which i dont) have it for the ones that were actually in their country not the fuckers who jumped boat and came here illegally.

Yeah, but you and I don't know the situation that caused them to come here illegally. How'd you feel if you had to leave home, go to place where you don't speak the language, and find a way to scrape out a living?

Yeah, yeah, you'd apply for citizenship and all that, but it's easy to say you'd do something while standing or sitting safe in your own home with food on the table and blah blah blah.

Just something I don't agree with you on :P

When looking at it from both perspectives, if I were a haitian, I would most likely do whatever it took to get to a place where I can live free and give my family a fighting chance for success (in this case, the United States). I don't fault them for trying to give their family a better life. Sometimes the time it requires for the paperwork to be done is just too long in their minds, so I can see where they are coming from.

Conversely, from the point of view of the United States and its citizens, this is a country set up with a system in place. Having foreigners here illegally undermines the system and hurts the members of said system (in both the long and short term). Illegals are using our educational system, hospitals, etc... without any compensation being paid. Basically they are taking out and not putting anything back in, which hurts the individuals of the system who are going about their business correctly.

So really we could argue that the system is faulty or that illegals are exploiting the system, or both.

Almost like the stealing bread to feed your family analogy.

Exactly jow to do figure the system is fault? All the laws are in place and being broken. Thats not a fault system thats adding a bunch of criminals to the equation.

Well we have a "system" set up in place to ensure that illegals do not enter the country without following proper procedures. Well we all know that it doesn't work 100% of the time; and since it has become quite the problem lately, I would imagine we could add something to the current system to ensure that we are at least getting something financially from the illegals to put into the system so that when people who actually need to take something out of it, it's there for them. This is one of the benefits of a national sales tax.

I will concede to fact there is a failure in the system but it isn't from the laws in place. For anyone thats had the opportunity to work with government employees then you know where the break down is.

Originally Posted by jason_jinx

Originally Posted by hawgballs

Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK!

Why is it our problem if they have a job when they get home or not?

It isn't, and given how shitty things are there, I'm sure they'll be able to get a job real fast, even if it's just hauling rocks and bodies from point A to point B. Doesn't mean you can't have a little sympathy for them.

The people have reverted to eating mud cookies a couple of years ago,............ how do you expect there to be jobs on an island where the populace eats dirt because they can't afford anything else?

holy shit man......

I think some people who love to talk shit about how illegals should be blown up by sea/land mines when crossing over should try and imagine themselves in a illegals shoes.

Lets not just open the flood gates to illegals but damn dont keep them in the same situation.

No one is saying keep them in the same situation. The resolution is simple. Fill out the fucking paperwork. If they dont want to fill it out and participate in this then yeah place landmines as you put it.

The government has hardly advanced since its conseption. They need to rethink EVERYTHING.

Originally Posted by Langrad

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

Originally Posted by Langrad

Quick note: Almost every American is an illegal immigrant. In fact you could make the argument that everyone here is an llegal immigrant.

Um i would like to see how you came to this theory.

I would like to direct your attention to American History and a little rhyme. In 1842 Columbus crossed the ocean blue. Holy shit he IMMIGRATED from Europe to what is now known as America. But wait langrad, you might say, what about those native Americans? Well they also immigrated from Russia (and from other parts before hand). So technically everyone, here, and almost everywhere, are immigrants if you look back far enough.

On to taxes! Here's what happens. The government gets the taxes puts them on a reel and ships them to IRS land. There they are combined with the GOVERNMENTS personal reel of SSN and personal data. This is a closed system. Outside information cant be entered. So fake SSN's while fooling the accountant crunching the numbers cant snake their way into the system. Now PERHAPS they found an accountant who isnt very ethical and is willing to falsify personal information saying that Bob whitey mcwhite social of 123-45-6789 lives where Mr. Illigal lives. He could then add the information from the aliens return to Bobs so when bob (who could be dead since the government might not keep track of that as well as SSN's) files the money is sent to Mr. Illigal.

So technicly they could get money but if the company that is paying them gets audited or they get audited it will come back in a big chain of shit for everyone involved. Accountant looses his practice and anything with his companies name attached gets examined. Company gets examined along with the rest of their employees, and the IRS goes and digs up poor bobs grave to examine him to make sure hes dead.

Yes he sailed the ocean blue but did not immigrate to the US. He brought coloniers. As for the indians well we all know how that worked out. So what your point? At one point in time there were no countries with borders to cross. Has no relivance to what is being discussed. Seeing as this is now and has been for a very long time a country with established laws in place of which millions and millions of people abide by why should they be any different? Very simple they shouldn't.

Yes lets move onto taxes. Do you think it's hard to get someones SSN? Why do you think there are so many companies thats business it trying to stop identity theft? It sure isn't because there isn't a problem. A 1040 ez form with a real ssn and name can be sent in from any where with the address of where you want it returned to and your done. Did you miss the whole prisoners filing for returns using fake names while in jail deal a couple years ago? There is no technically about it. They do get money. I think you need to think about the fact not everyone uses an accountant. Exspecially those that aren't filing for large amounts.