Thread: Health Care Reform Fight Shifts From Congress to the Courts

Originally Posted by hawgballs

Originally Posted by Blakeman

Originally Posted by hawgballs

Originally Posted by ...bigdog...

Originally Posted by triggerhappy2005

Sore losers.

right.....who won again?

Apparently not the status quo, or those that want to uphold it....

Who is the status quo Hawg? Who determines the status quo?

C'mon, really?
I dunno, maybe Aetna, CIGNA, Wellpoint and their CEO's...... You know those guys that only insure the healthy and deny those that most need it. The ones that compensate their CEO's and board members tens of millions of $ while charging more and covering less.... To name a few.

So those are the only people that did not like this plan? You have to be in bed with the insurance companies to be against this bill? So that determines the losers?

I'm not a CEO nor do I like insurance companies as they have been, but I am against this type of reform. Is that grounds for me being on the losing 'side'?

I love the hypocrisy of the bi partisan urging by both and then after the big 'we won, you lost' type talk.

By that definition we were all the status quo hawg.

Got this in an email from Obama's info center or whatever it's called...

For the first time in our nation's history, Congress has passed comprehensive health care reform. America waited a hundred years and fought for decades to reach this moment. Tonight, thanks to you, we are finally here.

Consider the staggering scope of what you have just accomplished:

Because of you, every American will finally be guaranteed high quality, affordable health care coverage.

Every American will be covered under the toughest patient protections in history. Arbitrary premium hikes, insurance cancellations, and discrimination against pre-existing conditions will now be gone forever.

And we'll finally start reducing the cost of care -- creating millions of jobs, preventing families and businesses from plunging into bankruptcy, and removing over a trillion dollars of debt from the backs of our children.

But the victory that matters most tonight goes beyond the laws and far past the numbers.

It is the peace of mind enjoyed by every American, no longer one injury or illness away from catastrophe.

It is the workers and entrepreneurs who are now freed to pursue their slice of the American dream without fear of losing coverage or facing a crippling bill.

And it is the immeasurable joy of families in every part of this great nation, living happier, healthier lives together because they can finally receive the vital care they need.

This is what change looks like.

My gratitude tonight is profound. I am thankful for those in past generations whose heroic efforts brought this great goal within reach for our times. I am thankful for the members of Congress whose months of effort and brave votes made it possible to take this final step. But most of all, I am thankful for you.

This day is not the end of this journey. Much hard work remains, and we have a solemn responsibility to do it right. But we can face that work together with the confidence of those who have moved mountains.

Our journey began three years ago, driven by a shared belief that fundamental change is indeed still possible. We have worked hard together every day since to deliver on that belief.

We have shared moments of tremendous hope, and we've faced setbacks and doubt. We have all been forced to ask if our politics had simply become too polarized and too short-sighted to meet the pressing challenges of our time. This struggle became a test of whether the American people could still rally together when the cause was right -- and actually create the change we believe in.

Tonight, thanks to your mighty efforts, the answer is indisputable: Yes we can.

Thank you,

President Barack Obama

Would somebody please tell me how this is going to make coverage more affordable?

I hate the concept of Preexisting Conditions as much as the next guy - I saw "Rainmaker" - i just dont understand how forcing companies to take on higher risk individuals is going to lower cost for the average American family.

It might improve some accessibility problems, that needed solving, but I believe it does so incompletely, and without a sound way of paying for it.

And how about all the people who lampooned this guy...

At a recent town-hall meeting in suburban Simpsonville, a man stood up and told Rep. Robert Inglis (R-S.C.) to “keep your government hands off my Medicare.”

They are cutting - how many tens of billions of dollars from Medicare coverage?

That guy doesn't sound so crazy after all. Say goodbye to Medicare Advantage plans...

What I dont understand is why not make this a truly bipartisan effort - where the parties work on issues they can commonly agree with?

Why try to take this massive step? It seems like really bad politics. They needed 216 votes, and got exactly that, the bare minimum, 216. If this was good politics, I would have expected overwhelming support.

If this was good policy, I would have expected a more open process.

The special interests won - the difference is that THESE special interests are the fuzzy feel-good emotionally special interests that agree with the people in power.

Just what we need, more wealth redistribution. Why work harder to make more money when you get slammed with new taxes at every turn. Graduated taxes are bad enough but now we're going to dip into everyone else's pocket by considering their medical plan as part of their income to be taxed. Great, just what I wanted, yet another tax bracket to get shoved into....

Let's just make the entitlement culture that much worst ....

Packet

Originally Posted by triggerhappy2005

Originally Posted by ...bigdog...

Originally Posted by triggerhappy2005

Sore losers.

right.....who won again?

senate bill has no public option or federally subsidized plan. and now no funding for abortion-related care. and whole piles of other crap the right stuck to.

Might want to read that bill. Democrats can call it a "win"....but calling it a win, and winning are a bit different, right?

Our society as a whole, won.

I agree that this bill doesn't go far enough but it took a big step in the right direction. I firmly believe that this is only the beginning of real reform, now that everyone has skin in the game.

Something else I found very interesting, Pelosi pointed out that by having almost universal health coverage, people looking to switch jobs or start their own business won't be tied down to a choice of giving up coverage or not.

Originally Posted by Consultant

Would somebody please tell me how this is going to make coverage more affordable?

I hate the concept of Preexisting Conditions as much as the next guy - I saw "Rainmaker" - i just dont understand how forcing companies to take on higher risk individuals is going to lower cost for the average American family.

It might improve some accessibility problems, that needed solving, but I believe it does so incompletely, and without a sound way of paying for it.

And how about all the people who lampooned this guy...

At a recent town-hall meeting in suburban Simpsonville, a man stood up and told Rep. Robert Inglis (R-S.C.) to “keep your government hands off my Medicare.”

They are cutting - how many tens of billions of dollars from Medicare coverage?

That guy doesn't sound so crazy after all. Say goodbye to Medicare Advantage plans...

What I dont understand is why not make this a truly bipartisan effort - where the parties work on issues they can commonly agree with?

Why try to take this massive step? It seems like really bad politics. They needed 216 votes, and got exactly that, the bare minimum, 216. If this was good politics, I would have expected overwhelming support.

If this was good policy, I would have expected a more open process.

The special interests won - the difference is that THESE special interests are the fuzzy feel-good emotionally special interests that agree with the people in power.

Well, Medicare is a government run insurance. So these people that are crying about government "interference" with Medicare have nothing to complain about... the "durn gummit" already runs it.
As for the "affordable health care", think about this. Many people right now (especially in urban areas) do not have health insurance. They don't go to the doctor because they can't pay for it. So, they stay home, with their illness becoming more serious. Finally, something catastrophic happens, requiring major medical intervention, and the hospital is required by law to provide emergency treatment. You still can't pay, so the hospital has to pass the cost of that treatment onto everyone else.
Take for example heart health. A person with insurance goes to the physician for their annual physical. The doctor finds certain risk factors that will most likely lead to a heart attack. They put the person on relatively inexpensive medicine (BP lowering medication, or blood thinners, or whatever. Maybe just an aspirin a day.), and some advice about a diet change. The heart attack is averted, at the cost of drawing some blood and running a few tests.
Now, let's give the same person no insurance. He goes on eating McDisaster with the super-jumbo fries. He goes on for another year or so, but then has a heart attack. Taken to the ER, they perform many advanced treatments. However, they now have to stabilize him, which basically means fixing the problem. So, balloon pump into the heart, transport to a heart center, cardiac cath, cardiac rehab, etc. This is the more expensive option. Can you see how it can save the entire system money in the longer run?
Or, a person has a physician. They don't feel well, go to the doctor, he prescribes something quick and simple, because he knows the patient, and knows their medical history. Very inexpensive visit. Compare that to the person who uses the ER as their primary physician. The doctor has no idea what's wrong short term or long term, and has to run a full battery of tests to determine the problem, driving up the cost.

Originally Posted by packetshooter

Just what we need, more wealth redistribution. Why work harder to make more money when you get slammed with new taxes at every turn. Graduated taxes are bad enough but now we're going to dip into everyone else's pocket by considering their medical plan as part of their income to be taxed. Great, just what I wanted, yet another tax bracket to get shoved into....

Let's just make the entitlement culture that much worst ....

Packet

When that wealth is gained at the expense of others, yes. In a past life (EMS dispatcher for a private ambulance service), I had to input medical billing in our billing system. The reasons for denial were astounding. A cardiac arrest denied. Why? Because the person didn't live 24 hours. So the family is stuck with the bill for the EMS and hospital. Just so the insurance company doesn't have to pay out, and the CEO can put a bit more money in his pocket from profits.
Show me where the medical plan is taxed as part of a person's income. I've been reading the bill, and haven't seen it yet.

the nice thing about our gov't is we can undo things if needed.

Originally Posted by digital

the nice thing about our gov't is we can undo things if needed.

But the problem there is that if it is bad, the Dems will fight to keep it in tact because it was their plan and wont admit that something they did was bad for the country. They will turn around and find a way to blame Bush for it I bet.