Thread: Hmm - pot meeting kettle - Mexican Immigation Laws

It's like you didn't even read my post. You certainly didn't attempt to answer any of the questions I put in it or examine the ideas that I put forth, but rather continue to treat the whole situation as completely without nuance and write responses that blatantly disregard a large quantity of my post. How frustrating.

Side of the highway is the highway, it was night? Cop was checking to make sure everything was alright. the cop questioned you to make sure you were not doing anything bad. people dont pull over on the side of the street for nothing...he had every right to question you, and guess what, you had every right to refuse to talk to him...now, would that of made you have a bad night? of course...The police officer was being pro active...in which they should.

Do you know how hard it is to see the ethninticity of a driver at night going down the road, shit, even in the day time...especially if they are speeding, so how are they just pulling over mexicans? You are a retard....

What is racial profiling? thinking you are an immigrant because you cant speak a word of english? Racial profiling is all in your head. You cant profile people if you dont see race. People are profiled all the time. It's the way police operate, is how you react on hunches, and stay on top of your game....

If you pull over a white guy in a flannel shirt, in a beat up truck, swerving all over the road, at 2am sunday morning..what do you assume? that he has been drinking right? You do? Guess what, YOU JUST PROFILED THAT PERSON. You can not be a good officer unless you are able to profile. If a police officer sees 4 black guys hanging out on a corner, wearing gang type clothes, and midnight friday night, huddled around tight, in a known drug area, guess what...he is going to make assumptions. He is going to assume they are armed, assume they may be dealing drugs. He will then approach, and ask them how they are doing this evening, where they are going, blah blah blah....


Cops can not just react to shit. Y ou have to get out on the street and stir shit up, FIND crime...


does that answer what you were asking about? that better princess?

As I said it was a residential street not a highway. Perhaps speeding was a bad scenario to mention, although there are scenarios where you can tell the race of someone before pulling them over for speeding. There are other scenarios where you can tell the race of someone before pulling them over for something else. Cell phone/seat belt/back middle taillight out/etc that people aren't necessarily pulled over for every time a cop sees it. Inconsistency of enforcement as a risk, strained relations with police, distrust of police or peer pressure not to involve police higher for certain ethnic populations, etc... basically the same ages-old argument with cops and African Americans in major cities, except now with Latinos and the added spice of possible deportation thrown in. There's a lot of research out there on why it makes things difficult, and now we're making it MORE difficult.

It makes Latinos less likely to call police for assistance. If you are legal and one of your neighbors isn't (or you aren't sure) then you are less likely to call the police for help even if you need it. For one example. It makes Latinos less likely to cooperate with police which makes it harder for them and for police. It has a lot of other chilling effects on police/Latino/society relations, which wind up bad for all parties. Let's not estrange a large segment of our population from those who are meant to protect them (not deport them... there are actually good reasons to keep deportation and policing separate to those who are the experts in each discipline). Because doing things like that push the Latinos in the country who ARE actually citizens towards being second class citizens for a variety of reasons. Even if all cops were perfect and impartial, there would be a negative impact on Latino/police relations and Latinos would end up getting less police help than white citizens. See through the red haze surrounding your vision whenever someone mentions cops to realize that people aren't saying it's all OMG RACIST POLEESE but also the chilling effect it has on Latinos (including legal Latinos) relations with the police.

Making cops do INS work is also a ham-fisted overly blunt way of handling immigration reform. There are other ways that cause less danger, less tension, less stigma than this. Going after businesses that hire illegal immigrants is one. There are many others.

From what other people have said I get the impression that you're a cop, and honestly the fact that you constantly fly off the handle when people don't instantly agree with you, resort to personal attacks as a matter of course, and basically act like an angry child at the slightest provocation just makes me want to ignore you, and doesn't really help your side on discussions like this. Yeah, I should be convinced that cops are all wise and impartial (keeping in mind that even with perfect cops this law would suck) when the one trying to convince me can't even get into an argument without flipping out and going apeshit EVERY TIME.

Alundil,

If the law was put in place in South Florida then I'd assume it was targeting Cubans/Haitians at a minimum. It's being put in place in Arizona as a response, specifically, to illegal Mexican immigrants. Are you saying that the illegal Mexican immigrant population in Arizona is not the chief stimulus behind the law? I did not think that that point was in doubt by either side.

Originally Posted by Toad

If the law was put in place in South Florida then I'd assume it was targeting Cubans/Haitians at a minimum. It's being put in place in Arizona as a response, specifically, to illegal Mexican immigrants. Are you saying that the illegal Mexican immigrant population in Arizona is not the chief stimulus behind the law? I did not think that that point was in doubt by either side.

Actually, I think you are the only one who keeps bringing up Mexicans here. Everyone else keeps saying it is for ALL illegal immigrants, regardless of where they immigrated from.
Here is the thing, under this law, if a cop has probable cause to suspect that someone is in country illegally, they can ask to see their paperwork. In my mind, that is no different than if they have probable cause to suspect someone is committing any other crime, they can arrest them. What could constitute probable cause? Lots of stuff. I am not a cop so I do not pretend to know everything they might consider probable cause. I am betting that in this particular case, if an officer comes across someone who speaks no English, that would be a good start. Contrary to what you may think, most cops are not on mad power trips looking for any excuse to arrest someone and a law like this is probably a good tool for them. As for you assertion of separation of powers between INS and police work, I agree. INS should be doing this, but they are not doing it to the satisfaction of Arizona and other states as well. Massachusetts is another example, though I think their law is better since it targets mostly the employers. Since you asserted that laws like this obviously target specific groups of immigrants, who do you think Massachusetts is racist against?

What a joke some of you are.
(lol yoda could have stated that)

Let the border states handle it. Some of you from the midwest think you know it all but you dont have a clue how it works down here. All you see is what is presented to you on the news and whatever ideas you smear up in your head.


What nobody seems to notice ( because the fail to think outside the news box) is that these bullshit rules and regulation is NOT GOING TO DO SHIT!

They will still come over now matter how high you build a wall or have a mandatory 45 year sentence for crossing over illegally.

but no.......lets continue to waste money, create new phony laws, and dig the hole even deeper.


Maybe if some of you get your head out of the clouds you will see that the true answer to stop them coming over is to not give them a reason to come over.

I wonder what that reason is......
dont hurt yourself thinking......

Toad - I agree that the point of the law in AZ was to curb illegal immigration by the prime offender group, which in this case is Mexican. However, your assumption that if the law were put in place in So Fla, that it'd be targeting Cubans/Haitians is only partly correct. You see, there is no illegal Cuban immigration problem. They are all legally extended asylum the minute their feet hit land. Haitians, on the other hand are persona non grata no matter what. I lived in So Fla for about 12 years and many of my college buddies and baseball team mates were Cuban. I think it really interesting that there's never been a peep from the Cuban immigrant population regarding the unfair laws about Haitian immigrants. Ah well, I guess they are too brown for them right?

As I stated elsewhere....and others have as well....this is no longer something that can be left up to the Fed as they have proven that they are inept. Multiple rules for multiple nationalities that do not make any sense. It is ridiculous.

As for Jinx, I (and I am sure others) am well aware of the point that you are trying to make. However, this like a lot of other things is a "Chicken or Egg" question. Movement has to start somewhere. It should go after, brutally, companies that hire illegals. I realize that it doesn't at this juncture. Hopefully there will be other laws enacted soon that will.