Thread: Kill the Ground Zero Mosque TV Ad

Originally Posted by hawgballs

The thing is, American Muslims want to build a mosque on American soil. America isn't in the "church building christianity spreading business" (as much as some might want it to be).... So if America were to join in such an endeavor we would be wholly wrong. But if it were to be Iraqi christians trying to build a church or YMCA there, then why not?

Your trying to argue like people on average are level headed easy to deal with. That is not the case and never will be. Like i said before my issue is placement but there is another issue at hand. Our government has been asisting in this project. The building that is there is considered a historical landmark yet they are considering tearing it down for this project. Dont get me wrong if the building is damaged then i agree something has to be done with it but i still feel this is not the way to go. They think this is going to bring unity when it is going to do just the opposite.

Originally Posted by hawgballs

The Cordoba center is as American as any other building in lower Manhattan. Are they any less american because they are muslim?

What does that have to do with anything? There are plenty of people that support what we did and are doing in iraq and afganistan but you can beat your ass if we turned the tables the building wouldnt stand a chance.


You can stop with the they are american muslim no one here has debated otherwise.

Originally Posted by hawgballs

Yet your reasoning for this conclusion is weak......

They are providing the same amenities and have the same goals as the Y...... shit 92nd street Y even gives classes on religion, even Judaism.

Im glad to see you threw that in there. So the YMCA is now the one actually trying to bridge a gap. I didnt see anywhere on there site where they had multiple practices in this 13 story building.

What does that have to do with anything? There are plenty of people that support what we did and are doing in iraq and afganistan but you can beat your ass if we turned the tables the building wouldnt stand a chance.

It has everything to do with it. You and others are painting it as an affront to American sensibilities/sensitivities for this group to build a muslim community center near GZ, yet the Cordoba center is founded by Americans. Then you try to compare how "they" would react if the US were to build a cultural center in Fallujah...... Indicating that the Cordoba center is as foreign to Americans as an American cultural center is foreign to Iraqis in Fallujah.(Which it isn't, hence my insistence on reminding you that Cordoba House is an American initiative by Americans)

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

You can stop with the they are american muslim no one here has debated otherwise.

I am not going to"stop with the they are american muslim" thing, although it isn't being debated that they are American, it is insinuated that they are being disrespectful of America and what happened to it on 9/11 as if they weren't impacted at all or any less American. It might not be debated otherwise, but it seems that their nationality is easily overlooked.

I ask, what is so disrespectful about a group of American wanting to build their community center which happens to include a place of worship near GZ? If it isn't their nationality that is the problem, then it has to be their religion. And the only assumption from there is that those that have a problem with their religion must equate the muslim faith with terrorism.

Originally Posted by Thorsen

I don't think the issue is that Muslims shouldn't be allowed to build there, or that they have nefarious reasons for building there, or that I would be angry at them for building there personally. The problem is (And read this thread and tell me I'm wrong) that the majority of Americans WILL SEE THIS AS A SIGN OF DISRESPECT. Whether they're right to take is as disrespect or not is irrelevant to the damage that could be done to Muslim-American relations.

Good intentions don't always make for good results.

exactly

Originally Posted by hawgballs

It has everything to do with it. You and others are painting it as an affront to American sensibilities/sensitivities for this group to build a muslim community center near GZ, yet the Cordoba center is founded by Americans. Then you try to compare how "they" would react if the US were to build a cultural center in Fallujah...... Indicating that the Cordoba center is as foreign to Americans as an American cultural center is foreign to Iraqis in Fallujah.(Which it isn't, hence my insistence on reminding you that Cordoba House is an American initiative by Americans)

Ok fine if it makes you feel better about yourself. A group in fallujah whats to build the church. That isnt going to change the out come. You feel better now? LOL you crack me up

I am not going to"stop with the they are american muslim" thing, although it isn't being debated that they are American, it is insinuated that they are being disrespectful of America and what happened to it on 9/11 as if they weren't impacted at all or any less American. It might not be debated otherwise, but it seems that their nationality is easily overlooked.

No its disrespectful to those that died and their families and most will see it that way just as they do now.

I ask, what is so disrespectful about a group of American wanting to build their community center which happens to include a place of worship near GZ? If it isn't their nationality that is the problem, then it has to be their religion. And the only assumption from there is that those that have a problem with their religion must equate the muslim faith with terrorism.

This has been discussed over and over. If you need help figuring out send me a pm or go back and read it all again.

Originally Posted by Thorsen

I don't think the issue is that Muslims shouldn't be allowed to build there, or that they have nefarious reasons for building there, or that I would be angry at them for building there personally. The problem is (And read this thread and tell me I'm wrong) that the majority of Americans WILL SEE THIS AS A SIGN OF DISRESPECT. Whether they're right to take is as disrespect or not is irrelevant to the damage that could be done to Muslim-American relations.

Good intentions don't always make for good results.

Well if that is then the majority of Americans can be summed up as ignorant short-sighted assholes with a narrow view of reality. And is more the reason why this place should be built, to provoke thought, conversation and to shed light on the ignorance as well as to correct the untruths being espoused.
Ignorance of a populace is no reason to halt good works, in fact it should be a stimulus for the learned to inform the ignorant...

It seems that the overwhelming approval by those that actually live in the area should override the "concerns" of those that aren't from the area, especially those that have never even stepped foot in the area, and whose concerns are wholly symbolic.

Originally Posted by hawgballs

Well if that is then the majority of Americans can be summed up as ignorant short-sighted assholes with a narrow view of reality. And is more the reason why this place should be built, to provoke thought, conversation and to shed light on the ignorance as well as to correct the untruths being espoused.
Ignorance of a populace is no reason to halt good works, in fact it should be a stimulus for the learned to inform the ignorant...

It seems that the overwhelming approval by those that actually live in the area should override the "concerns" of those that aren't from the area, especially those that have never even stepped foot in the area, and whose concerns are wholly symbolic.

Those that live there do not have an over whelming approval. In fact the majority do not want it there.