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Thread: Green Jobs and Renewable Enrgy Projects - not so much

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    #1

    Green Jobs and Renewable Enrgy Projects - not so much

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...imulus/?page=1

    The long delays typical with environmentally friendly projects - combined with reports of green stimulus funds being used to create jobs in China and other countries, rather than in the U.S. - appear to have killed the administration's appetite for pushing green projects as an economic cure.
    ....
    Only about $20 billion of the allotted funds have been spent - the slowest disbursement rate for any category of stimulus spending. Private analysts are skeptical of White House estimates that the green funding created 190,700 jobs.

    The Department of Energy estimated that 82,000 jobs have been created and has acknowledged that as much as 80 percent of some green programs, including $2.3 billion of manufacturing tax credits, went to foreign firms that employed workers primarily in countries including China, South Korea and Spain, rather than in the United States.
    Color me not surprised. Sounded like a great idea on the campaign trail. However the reality of the situation leaves a lot to be desired. Like jobs creation.

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    #2

    Re: Green Jobs and Renewable Enrgy Projects - not so much

    I read a different article, that basically made the same points. I support green thinking, but I think some of the approaches and the loose use of the term "green" has caused some of the failures.

    Appliance rebates, while a great incentive to buy new appliances, it fails to really have an impact. Most people buying appliances are doing so based strictly on need. You dont just decide to buy a new washer and dryer. That directs rebates towards those who are in the market, and in this day and age, the energy star appliances are a no brainer. They are competitively priced and any added expense will be paid for in most all cases in less than 5 years. People buy products that are effecient, no real need to direct cash in that market.

    Alternative energy, great we need it! The downside is many of these are still not cost effective and efficient enough. Improvements to existing methods can increase the efficiency of current systems until newer technology evolves. The stimulus invested a lot of money into research, but until it goes into production it has no stimulating affects on the economy. Also, we have existing wind farms that can generate power but it is not being utilized because lack of transmission lines. I think this would be an excellent creation of skilled electrical jobs and many support construction jobs, and would encourage production of more wind turbines, another creation of jobs.

    Weatherizing existing homes, kind of a small piece of the pie. Typically not enough benefit environmentally speaking. Also it doesnt direct a real growth in the "green" market. I would prefer that new construction be improved. Working in the green building industry I have been to numerous shows and seen a bunch of "new technologies" branded green. There are some great ideas and sure some of them are more efficient than traditional building, but they have to be done in a custom home build. Are gain as a nation would be to encourage track home builders to rethink the way they build. I have seen neighborhoods pop up and they have green on their sign. I'm sorry your still building a stick and brick home, you used energy star appliances and double windows, then ground up the left over 2x4s for mulch in the landscaping. All of that is things that should be done anyway! The other thing that bothers me is the use of recycled material and calling it green! Styrofoam is not green any way you package it! Even if your recycling it and using it in a house for insulation, its not good. The house catches fire and you just polluted more than you ever saved on energy.

    We need a culture change in our building techniques. In Abilene(of all places) there is a project going on where they are building homes and plan on not having hvac, yes thats in Texas with no hvac! Using the earth to cool an earthen dwelling, built to take advantage of the solar cycle, using water conservation, and many other things that other builds cant even dream of. Why are these projects not receiving stimulus! Houses that will outlast us, are energy effecient, cheaper to build, it needs to be priority to build for the future. What was that saying during the campaign lipstick on a pig... old outdated houses are still old and outdated even though you throw in some new windows and insulation and energy star appliances.

    It was a great thing to include, if it worked. Its the "in" thing to talk about, sadly the nation fails at putting it into practice. Green is not saving electricity, its not saving water, its not polluting less, it is a culmination of all the things we can and should do in order to protect our planet. It doesnt have to be extreme or costly or a burden. Most of it is common sense, cut less trees, waste less, conserve more, recycle what we have. Funny common sense story for the end, at a green show, there was a booth encouraging pouring a slab for a big patio as green... saves you from watering as much in this hot climate! HAHA, concrete grey, grass green... hmmm
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    Re: Green Jobs and Renewable Enrgy Projects - not so much

    Maybe they ought to strengthen the regulations(I know, I am acting protectionist here) and place measures to ensure that these funds stay in the US.

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    Re: Green Jobs and Renewable Enrgy Projects - not so much

    Quote Originally Posted by hawgballs View Post
    Maybe they ought to strengthen the regulations(I know, I am acting protectionist here) and place measures to ensure that these funds stay in the US.
    I've thought that for quite a while actually about several industries. Incentive-ize keeping businesses or industries local. However, that is a very difficult position to try and put into practice. I've tried from a theoretical standpoint on several occasions with colleagues and friends. Not a fun exercise. I think from a very limited standpoint, there are things that could be done to impact the off-shoring problem. But, very little on the whole.

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    Re: Green Jobs and Renewable Enrgy Projects - not so much

    I say tax the shit out of those off-shoring. De-incentive-ize the decision to go offshore with their business.

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    Re: Green Jobs and Renewable Enrgy Projects - not so much

    This way they are free to go overseas, but there is still a gain here in the US to subsidize other parts of the sector.

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    Re: Green Jobs and Renewable Enrgy Projects - not so much

    Quote Originally Posted by hawgballs View Post
    I say tax the shit out of those off-shoring. De-incentive-ize the decision to go offshore with their business.
    That is one of the ways that this can be accomplished. The downside once you get to thinking about it is that there is little to stop the corporation (unless the resources that they need are stateside (and even then it's not a deal killer)) from uprooting the business entirely and just moving everything offshore and then sell back into the US as an exporter (e.g. China, Korea, Japan, etc.)
    Quote Originally Posted by hawgballs View Post
    This way they are free to go overseas, but there is still a gain here in the US to subsidize other parts of the sector.
    It's something that would have to be very "finely" manipulated and would likely appear very "protectionist" to the rest of the world (WTO) and might come across as a tariff.

    It's a head scratcher to be sure.

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    #8

    Re: Green Jobs and Renewable Enrgy Projects - not so much

    I suggest two things:
    First, Tax the hell out of those companies that outsource their labor, while giving tax breaks to those that do not.
    Second, the Federal Government buys no goods or contracts from companies that outsource their labor or are not American companies. (State governments should do these things too.)
    Sleep, eat, conquer, meditate, repeat.

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    #9

    Re: Green Jobs and Renewable Enrgy Projects - not so much

    Quote Originally Posted by hawgballs View Post
    I say tax the shit out of those off-shoring. De-incentive-ize the decision to go offshore with their business.
    I agree. And stop allowing them to call themselves "american businesses."

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    Re: Green Jobs and Renewable Enrgy Projects - not so much

    Quote Originally Posted by WickedTribe View Post
    I agree. And stop allowing them to call themselves "american businesses."
    Precisely. If they want to "pick up and move overseas" then they can cease becoming an American company de-list themselves from our exchanges............

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