TSA in denial?

**Kraker Jak** · 03-08-11, 10:37 AM

I didnt dodge it, I have answered it like 6 times already...you failure to understand is not my problem

**CivilWars** · 03-08-11, 10:50 AM

Saying we don't know how effective the TSA is would be total BS. When/if the TSA busted some master plot to cause harm they would be singing their own praises through every news outlet on the planet. The fact that there is evidence of people getting on planes with knives, bomb materials, and other banned items, but little to no evidence of the TSA averting any "major" issues tells all of the story we need to know.

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**deathgodusmc** · 03-08-11, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by Kraker Jak

I didnt dodge it, I have answered it like 6 times already...you failure to understand is not my problem

No actually you haven't.

**Red_Lizard2** · 03-08-11, 06:22 PM

Originally Posted by CivilWars

Saying we don't know how effective the TSA is would be total BS. When/if the TSA busted some master plot to cause harm they would be singing their own praises through every news outlet on the planet. The fact that there is evidence of people getting on planes with knives, bomb materials, and other banned items, but little to no evidence of the TSA averting any "major" issues tells all of the story we need to know.

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Maybe the TSA is too busy trying to pretend like a breakdown of security in Yemen or Holland somehow means security at U.S. airports is horrible and we need to start patting people down, and body scanners, and and and etc. etc. (again, all the patdown crap happened after the failed underwear bomber, who NEVER once stopped in an U.S. airport before he tried to detonate.)

**Alundil** · 03-09-11, 12:27 PM

I am coming in late to this party....but I am just getting started

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

Actually neither. TSA is an abortion that shouldn't be around to being with. They have proven over and over they dont keep shit off planes aside from shampoo and fingernail clippers. Just because you have no issue with your rights disappearing does not mean that im ok with it. Why do i need a book? Clearly when i sit here im reading news reports. You should try it sometime expand your mind.

Death, I know that you could care less about spelling ;p but the word you were looking for was abomination.

Originally Posted by Kraker Jak

so we should have absolutely no security at airports....is that what you are advocating?

That is ridiculous and not even close to what he said (or any other people that are against the current practices of the TSA such as myself)

Originally Posted by Kraker Jak

what part of you have no reasonable expectation of privacy if you feel like you want to get on a privately owned plane? YOu think just cuz you are "an american" you have every right not to be searched if you walk into my house?

You're ridiculous.

First, it is a privately owned vehicle. If the owner of that privately held vehicle stated that "In order to board my private (and fantastic) flying machine you must agree to be searched up to and including fondling, err I mean groping, err I mean light petting, err you know what I mean." But in this case it is not the owner of the vehicle making that a requirement. It is a government agency.

Second, I am not walking into your house and so that is another ridiculous and nonsensical argument.

Originally Posted by Kraker Jak

airplanes are not a public place, and are privately owned. Do you bitch everytime you go into your city/county building, or state capitol building and you are searched?

If I were searched in the same manner every time I entered my city/county building, state capitol building etc, I probably would bitch yes. However, the fact is that I've never had to do more than pass through a metal detector to get into any city/county building, and many times not even that much. So, your point assumes that security in a "post 9/11" USA is uniform and tight. In fact it is far from it. And in further fact, it is very, very porous and very few acts of "terrorisn" have occurred even though the total security apparatus is fairly bad.

Originally Posted by Kraker Jak

I dont get what you guys are pissed about. Let's say TSA doesnt exsist...and its just private security/state owned security companies working the gates. Do you think they will never let a box cutter go through? Do you think they will do a better job? Why?
Of course they won't do a better job in the aggregate. They are people and fallible (see your point below). The fact is that there are likely just as many "illicit" items making it through the checks or being stopped by the checks as there were when it was a simple metal detector and carry-on xray. There have been no, at least none that I am aware, "busts" or potentially explosive laden terrorists or gun weilding madmen stopped by the TSA. It is a dog and pony show, at best. An inconvenient one at that.
It is hard to say whether or not TSA is doing a good job or not.
And this is the most egregious part of the entire scenario. If you implement major game changing mechanics into a process or workflow (and don't fool yourself....TSA and the scanning and pat down procedures are game changing in regards to the airlines' workflow) you better make damn sure that there is a measurable outcome. In this case there is no measurable outcome at all. Why? Because in the aggregate, they've not changed the statistic one way or another regarding what gets stopped or not. You've got 3 box cutters here, a few pocket knives there, a handgun a few months back, the underwear bomb guy who was stopped by passengers ON THE FLIGHT (....even though Big Sis took credit for that one lol)...see where this is going?
Because you have no clue what they have stopped, confiscated, prevented etc. And we also have no clue what has passed by them. Obviously nothing to take down a plane, but I'm sure in the last 10 years, there has been someone who actually got on a plane with a gun, box cutter, 4oz of toothpaste etc....
EXACTLY
We are humans, and nowhere near perfect.
Agreed
My argument is, bascially, get off thier nuts.
Just as soon as they "get off of everyone else's"
I dont see you applying to work there, and maybe help make some changes.
Perhaps if they actually required people with some education and perhaps experience (and paid accordingly) there might be a better return from a personnel perspective. However, what you have working for the TSA are hardly "crack" security persons.
I worked for TSA for like 2 weeks about 4 years ago (wasnt really for me)....
Why? You didn't feel like "maybe helping to make some changes?"
....and I can tell you, those machines you have to look through to see inside luggage, are a fucking bitch to positively identify anything.
Gosh.....so we have uneducated and unskilled (and "crash course" trained) personnel responsible for the safety and security of 1000s of passengers and the tool they have to use is "a fucking bitch to positively identify anything."
I can see why they've been so successful....
Hawg, I'm sure at your resturant, people complain all the time. Does that make it a bad resturant? I'm sure it doesnt. I hate the Olive Garden we have here because the servers suck ass fuck and the cooks are terrible. But I still love olive garden
Unless Hawg is searching you and giving the "reach-around" this is not relevant.

Originally Posted by Gumby

We are not serious about keeping our planes safe because we refuse to allow real security professionals profile passengers and prefer to have low wage types simply grope us.

This is extremely obvious

Originally Posted by WickedTribe

Profiling at the very least, goes against our ideals as a country, and is almost certainly unconstitutional.
However, the absense of any meaningful screening methodology is better because it is somehow more palatable to subject everyone to illegal searches and detention, passing along the same risk of life and limb so that certain people don't get their feelings hurt?
Once we cross the line of placing our security above our ideals,....
we've already placed "security" (or the illusion thereof) above our ideals
....there are a lot of bad places that we can go.
We're already there

Originally Posted by WickedTribe

No, mine won't, that's the difference. If groping is wrong, why is it OK to grope someone because they belong to the same racial group that some terrorists came from?
Also, what factors should we profile for? Muslim males? Middle eastern males? What about Asian Muslims, or middle eastern Christians?

Why is Race the only type of profiling that ever gets mentioned when these topics come up? There are a lot of other pertinent factors (behavioral, dress, etc) that can, and should, be profiled. Those things give away a huge amount of information and have zero to do with race or ethnicity. However, because the USA/TSA choose to provide an illusion instead of actual security the training that proper profiling requires will never happen. It would cost them too much per agent. So they settle for the current...and we get groped.

Originally Posted by CivilWars

Originally Posted by Kraker Jak

So death, what maes u think you are entitled to 4th amendment rghts while boarding a private companies airplane. Flying is not a right, it is a priviledge, and I think by buying that ticket, you are forfieting certain liberties. Dontlike it, don't fly

This would have some merit if it were the airline conducting, or even requesting, the search.

This....it is not the airline requiring or requesting this...and they, more than anyone else, have a vested interest in secure and safe travel.

Originally Posted by Kraker Jak

Prior - 9/11

TSA- ? What has happend? What has been prevented? WHo fuckin knows...but I know a plan hasnt been hijacked since...

And your point with this is what? How many US planes were hijacked on US soil prior to 9/11? The entire tragic event was an outlier.

And just to book end this one:

A frisk is invasive. Whether you think so or not. You are touching someone in a manner that would be illegal for another citizen to do without consent. That the TSA has a badge is irrelevant as to whether they are allowed to frisk anyone and everyone that they choose.

**deathgodusmc** · 03-09-11, 01:16 PM

No allundi you just dont understand the meanings of probably cause and search.

**digital** · 03-09-11, 01:42 PM

hey deathgodusmc. get off your lazy ass and start up your own airline company.

**digital** · 03-09-11, 01:45 PM

100 bucks says you joined the tea party...didnt yea?

**Alundil** · 03-09-11, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by digital

100 bucks says you joined the tea party...didnt yea?

huh? Exactly what does that have to do with anything? And if that was being asked of me, I don't belong to, or affiliate with, any political party. Personally, I think that every last one of them is a piece of shit and a waste of space. That is my gut feeling about all things political at this point. I am so fucking sick and tired of daily life being filled with one bullshit story after another about one asshole or another who professes to be the next great thing. Fuck'em all. They can rot.

**Kanati** · 03-09-11, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by CivilWars

Saying we don't know how effective the TSA is would be total BS. When/if the TSA busted some master plot to cause harm they would be singing their own praises through every news outlet on the planet. The fact that there is evidence of people getting on planes with knives, bomb materials, and other banned items, but little to no evidence of the TSA averting any "major" issues tells all of the story we need to know.

Glad you brought that up. I was going to and got tired of reading about 5 pages ago. The TSA would be holding press conferences every day for a month if they actually caught someone with a real threat to a plane.