New Wikileaks

**Gumby** · 04-26-11, 11:47 AM

Double post

**WickedTribe** · 04-26-11, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by Gumby

I am not justifying anything. I am telling you how things work in the real world. And I hardly think that any of Washington's army would approve of the Taliban's tactics. Good job though on compairing an army that fought off an oppressive monarchy to one that fights for misogyny and theocracy.

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You're basing your argument for the mistreatment of innocents on the tactics used, not the cause for which they're fighting. These are completely separate issues, and yes, in some general ways, the tactics employed by both groups are similar.

**Gumby** · 04-26-11, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by WickedTribe

You're basing your argument for the mistreatment of innocents on the tactics used, not the cause for which they're fighting. These are completely separate issues, and yes, in some general ways, the tactics employed by both groups are similar.

I am saying that if an army chooses to not wear uniforms and try and blend in with the local populace, these things will happen. It is reality. The question then is this: do you blame those that blend in or those that try and find the ones blending in? Also, the cost of the uniforms, as you said earlier is not an issue. Uniforms could be as simple as a red bandana. They only have to be willing to stand out from the non-combatants, which they are not willing to do.

Trigger, did I read that right where you implied that these were 150 or so cases of intentional wrongful imprisonment? If it was intentional, that seems like a rather large number to me. If it was unintentional, considering pretty much the entire population would have been suspected (see the blending in thing above) 150 seems like a small percentage.

**WickedTribe** · 04-26-11, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by Gumby

I am saying that if an army chooses to not wear uniforms and try and blend in with the local populace, these things will happen. It is reality. The question then is this: do you blame those that blend in or those that try and find the ones blending in? Also, the cost of the uniforms, as you said earlier is not an issue. Uniforms could be as simple as a red bandana. They only have to be willing to stand out from the non-combatants, which they are not willing to do.

Just like our revolutionary war heroes weren't.

**triggerhappy2005** · 04-26-11, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by Gumby

I thought your article said they were from Afghanistan and Pakistan? Maybe I need to re-read it. Iraq is a very different situation

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Iraq/Afghanistan...whatever. We chose to go to both and occupy so we're reaping what we sew.

**Gumby** · 04-26-11, 12:14 PM

so you agree with me?

**triggerhappy2005** · 04-26-11, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by Gumby

so you agree with me?

Agree? What do you mean?

Btw, I admit that 'torture facility' is an overly strong term but Gitmo doesn't exist as a detention facility designed to rehabilitate wayward muslims.

**Thorsen** · 04-26-11, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by WickedTribe

Just like our revolutionary war heroes weren't.

Well actually most of the regulars and a lot of the militia DID wear uniforms, but there was no unified uniform for the whole "movement" if you will. And yes, some of the revolutionaries couldn't afford any uniform and would wear civilian clothes.

**Gumby** · 04-26-11, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by triggerhappy2005

Agree? What do you mean?

Btw, I admit that 'torture facility' is an overly strong term but Gitmo doesn't exist as a detention facility designed to rehabilitate wayward muslims.

Sorry, I should have been more clear, that was for Wicked

**triggerhappy2005** · 04-26-11, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by Gumby

Trigger, did I read that right where you implied that these were 150 or so cases of intentional wrongful imprisonment? If it was intentional, that seems like a rather large number to me. If it was unintentional, considering pretty much the entire population would have been suspected (see the blending in thing above) 150 seems like a small percentage.

It doesn't have to be intentional to be heinous. These people weren't detained somwhere in Iraq for a few days until they could be sorted out. They were shipped to a far away place to have info forcefully extracted from them. I don't care if it's a war or not or if it makes soldiers lives more difficult but there has to be properly vetted evidence to do something like that. Our standards should be higher.