Thread: Concealed Carry on Campus passes Texas Senate

Originally Posted by Nuckle

They went down fighting on the last plane once they realized what was going on. What has changes is that they start out fighting at the sign of aggression and take control. The guy that had the condom type bomb and most recently the guy that went nuts beating on the cabin door were both taken down by citizens and air marshals. Why nitpick this detail? My point is that in these situations where people go nuts You are better off fighting and fighting armed if possible. I would rather not be one of the ones huddled up hoping that the nut job does not select me. I would rather be the guy that sends him to hell.

Where is the conflicting data?

It's not a detail, it seems to be a main point of your statement. Your initial post suggested that we, as a society, have changed, and now we fight, when in fact, people fought on 9/11, so no change has occurred. Also, I see that you've slipped in "armed," when none of your examples involve an armed civilian.

Edit: The conflicting data...

The study that is generally cited to indicate a correlation between concealed carry and a decrease in crime is from Lott: JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

The Donahue study that had opposite findings: http://works.bepress.com/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1017&context=john_donohue& sei-redir=1#search="concealed+carry+crime+studies+yale "

And several that find no change in either direction. Edit - removing the list, here's the link: More Guns, Less Crime - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by Nuckle

I see your point but have we not learned a thing with the whole plane terrorist situation? How many years were we told to just stay calm and do nothing? Now we fight and so far it is working to our advantage.

Well, from what I heard (most of my news watching came post 9/11), before 9/11 hijacking a plane was mostly just for monetary or political gains, and the idea was it was safer not to try to play "hero" and instead comply (which a lot of hostage situations I believe is true, why piss off the people holding you?). The bombers (underwear/shoe/w.e) don't really apply to the hijacking thing, as in that case its 100% clear life/death situation, the person either goes boom and takes you out with them, or they don't. With the bombers though, from what I recall no-one had an idea until after they had fail basically.

I disagree shooters are planning their target on "path of least resistance," hasn't most cases so far of someone going on a rampage been motivated by some emotion towards the place they are attacking. When a person goes crazy/nuts, I don't think they'll planning who they'll take, they are just going after random targets. Just as an example, if the plan was least resistance, why did the Fort Hood shooter decide to go on a rampage at Fort Hood (instead of somewhere that wouldn't be known for having shit loads of guns?).

I've been different then most people around here on the gun thing, but I just don't see/feel how carry a handgun with me to class is going to make me anymore safer then I already am? I mean if I was going to Chavez (Highschool but still) in South Phoenix then it might. Then again it may help even less there if the person coming after me already has theirs out.

I'm not anti-gun, I'm just not on the pro side either. I like them, but when it comes to concealed carry, open, carrying in bars (by far the stupid fucking law ever, in fact still haven't seen anywhere in tempe OR flag that serves beer AND allows guns into there establishment), etc. not really sold they solve anything or cause anything (minus bars, don't trust drunk people and guns, sorry).

I do think they should allow the schools to decide if they do or don't want weapons on their campus or not. And I do think the idea of saying carrying on a campus=crime would be stupid (because if someone snaps, they aren't going to give a shit about the law, and in most cases people who are murdering others snapped before they decided to go do it),

Originally Posted by WickedTribe

It's not a detail, it seems to be a main point of your statement. Your initial post suggested that we, as a society, have changed, and now we fight, when in fact, people fought on 9/11.

In fairness, as mentioned in my other post, the people who did fight on 9/11 (that we know of) only did once it become clear it was likely fight or die situation. If they didn't know about the fate of the other planes, I think there is, at least, a decent chance they wouldn't of fought (because, again from what I've read no-one had ever hijacked a plane to use as a suicide weapon before).