Thread: Pawlenty tax plan.

not a socialist or commie, i just think the rich, especially wall street, are as much to blame for the debt as the government.

ideally im an anarchist but people are too dumb and greedy for that to work.

and punish is not the right word at all. they'll be fine with two houses.

I have two houses...i'm not rich, i'm smart. I'll soon have more houses also. There are plenty opportunities out there, people just want to rely on Barry's Gov Cheese or whoever the hell is Prez at the time.

Originally Posted by K0nTANK3Rous

Why punish someone for being smarter or more fortunate than you? Because a guy took his life savings, which may not have been much, put his balls out on the table and made big, we should punish him for that? That's not America, that's wealth distribution, bordering on class warfare and simply letting the lazy man be lazy. This country wasn't made to let the rich feed the poor, that's the most asinine plan ever, even for someone to "sugar coat" it and call it "patriotism". Bullshit.

It's not "punishment." If you own most of the wealth in the country, you damn well better pay most of the fucking taxes. What's fair is fair. Quit glorifying the rich as if they are some sort of deities. And you're damn right it's class warfare. The rich are attacking the poor and trying to shift the tax burden onto them because they got theirs, so fuck everyone else. This is exactly what reject was talking about when he said people look down on the poor, like you are by calling them "lazy," and willing to kiss any rich person's ass by glorifying them as "hardworking risk-takers."

Originally Posted by K0nTANK3Rous

There's 2 types of people..Doers and Takers. The rich got where they are because they TOOK a chance and got it DONE.

Or they TOOK money from the government or scammed it from other people. Just ask Bernie Madoff about that... And what about people that do try, but don't succeed? That would be the vast majority of people, by the way. Bunch of lazy good-for-nothings, I bet.

Originally Posted by K0nTANK3Rous

So because you try once or twice you just give up? I'm still trying, i've been shot down at banks for business loans, told no by investors, etc...What has that done? Taught me a lesson of self evaluation, what can I do to present my case better, kind of like, selling yourself. So now with an adjusted business model, I can walk into a bank and get a loan for what I need. That took years to develop, loads of time, and that's time away from my familiy, my friends, my hobbies, just so I can get ahead. What does me getting ahead do? Well that enables me to put money up for saving, for MY family, not someone elses. I put the work in, not crackhead down the road. My kids will have money for college, for weddings (sheesh I have 2 girls), whatever. I understand the use of tax system loopholes so you can make better use of the profits you generate. Now, that does not say I support the likes of the Bernie Madoff's and such. I'm a strictly by the books, Black and White type guy. I don't and will never condone the acts of people that scam others to get ahead. That's not what my post was about. We have laws for that and that guy got caught. Sadly, he is a small fish in a big pond.

That's great that you have found success, and I'm not holding that against you. I never even said anything about your person situation. But, again, not everyone is going to able to replicate that success. Not everyone has the same opportunities you have had and not everyone will be a successful. However, that doesn't mean that most people are poor or just middle-class due to lack of effort.

Originally Posted by K0nTANK3Rous

I support a fair tax, so no matter what your income you pay the same percentage as the next guy. Obviously the more wealthy should be paying more since the percentages would reflect such. What you also DON'T take into account, is business owners that might be doing well (what you call "rich"), also pay business related taxes. So they dump quite a bit of money into the system. I don't glorify any person in regards to wealth. You refer to the most extreme cases and just seem like a bitter half wit because you are "less fortunate" (i guess, since you seem to have so much built up anger), so you think that the more fortunate have to pay more? WTF is that? All that does is take away free enterprise, free thinking, capitalism, all that this country was built on. Gheez, I sure wish my grandparents had your Utopia when they migrated here from Italy and Germany so they didn't have to bust there balls day and night just to get by. I guess that determination, self perseverance that they instilled in us didn't do any good and all us Dago's and Gerry's are screwing everyone over because we make shit happen.

A "fair tax" is an unfair regressive tax that moves the tax burden to the less wealthy. And it is not about the wealthy paying "more," it is about them paying their fair share. If the top 10% of the people owns over 70% of all the nations wealth, they should be paying at least 70% of all the tax revenue. The bottom 40% in this country owns less than 1% of the wealth, so they should be covering very little of the tax revenue. That is fair. What your fair tax will do is raise taxes on the people on the bottom and lower taxes on people on the top, so in effect make the bottom 40% cover more than their fair share.

Opportunities do not just present them selves. You have to make your own. People with nothing or very little always want to assume that the ones that have something were either given it, stole it or it just fell in their lap.

I had a million reasons to be a failure as I was growing up and there was a time that I lived at the poverty level. I chose a different path and worked my ass off to get where I am. I am not rich yet, but I am working on it. I am certainly paying my fair fucking share of taxes.

I see plenty of Escalades in the projects.

Originally Posted by Nuckle

I see plenty of Escalades in the projects.

This is huge issue for me. Are the "poor" really "poor"? I can't tell you how many times I've gone to my local grocery store, stood behind a woman in line with 4 unruly kids who paid for $400-$500 worth of groceries with foodstamps (after she pulled the card out of her wallet which contained a shit ton of $20 bills), only to walk out to the parking lot to unload her groceries into a brand new Nissan Maxima with rims and tinted windows (a $30,000 car).

I also worked with a guy who collected foodstamps while working and selling stolen handbags and accessories out of his trunk. Lived with his girlfriend who also was receiving foodstamps AND welfare.

How poor are the poor exactly? Who the hell knows with people like this. This is precisely why I have a hard time just lumping the "poor" into one category of people who supposedly have ZERO opportunity (Which is bs).

Originally Posted by rock_lobster

This is huge issue for me. Are the "poor" really "poor"? I can't tell you how many times I've gone to my local grocery store, stood behind a woman in line with 4 unruly kids who paid for $400-$500 worth of groceries with foodstamps (after she pulled the card out of her wallet which contained a shit ton of $20 bills), only to walk out to the parking lot to unload her groceries into a brand new Nissan Maxima with rims and tinted windows (a $30,000 car).

I also worked with a guy who collected foodstamps while working and selling stolen handbags and accessories out of his trunk. Lived with his girlfriend who also was receiving foodstamps AND welfare.

How poor are the poor exactly? Who the hell knows with people like this. This is precisely why I have a hard time just lumping the "poor" into one category of people who supposedly have ZERO opportunity (Which is bs).

That is the heart of the argument in my opinion. People like me think that half the "poor" are close to what you describe. People on the other side of the fence thinks that it is less than 1%. I go off of what I see and what I see if a bunch of people living off the system because they are too fucking lazy to work. Not everyone can be a Doctor, we still need ditch diggers. We are just running out of people to do the digging. Plenty are capable but would rather live for free than work for what they have.