Thread: The bible says

You are confusing observation with a priori arguments, not the same thing. If I say observe this mathematical statement, that is not a proof. Mathematics is only concerned with proofs. All of your examples are physics, which is a mathematical science, but it is not mathematics. You keep making the same point and my point is that you are aruging that physics is a science. What you talk about as observation is actually the Peano Axioms of Arithmetic.

Axiom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Theorem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Lemma (mathematics) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Corollary - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

-H

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

No my arguement is or was however you wish to look at it is that mathematics is a science. A secondary point is that mathematics regardless of known equations now is based on observation first. We have observed many things in the past and proved by equation that it will be true every time. At that point in time we no longer need to observe it to know what will happen or what it takes to fill a space.

That would be the basis for your axiom and theorem. Man kind did not just pick up a stick and start doing equations in the sand from the top of their head. Just because we no longer need to do the phsyical act does not remove the observation it took to develope the equation.

you are wrong, and I say that drawing on my studies of mathematics, philosophy of science, and my studies in the sciences. The only way for you to understand this is for me to force feed you a discrete mathematics course, but I am not going to do that since I have a PhD to work on.

-H

Equations are not where it started, you have to define things, humans started counting before they figured out the axioms that allowed them to count. However they always held these axioms to be true, they just did not know it. Mathematics is the world behind the world my friend. Equations themselves are meaningless to a mathematician, all functions even the ones studied in primary school have deep properties and assumptions associated with them. Mathematics is about why a+b=b+a. Just because someone uses an equation to describe the physical world, that is not mathematics, if someone proves the equation holds for a given set of axioms, that is math, but again ones axiomatic system cannot be fixed when it comes to anything physical.

Mathematical proof - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

-H

Originally Posted by Glitch

DG that is why I bowed out of that conversation. Math like Han is talking about is WAY more than you or I will ever know. It is on a level beyond any class you have likely taken.

May be one to give in on.

DG doesn't know the meaning of the word quit

Well, actually he DOES know the meaning of the word....but he promptly labels those people quitters, takes their lunch money, and jumps back into the fray lol.

Originally Posted by Glitch

DG that is why I bowed out of that conversation. Math like Han is talking about is WAY more than you or I will ever know. It is on a level beyond any class you have likely taken.

May be one to give in on.

The funny thing is, no one actually needs to know it, the system works without it for the most part. People will just complain that the rules of algebra seem arbitrary and the go ahead and use them. The only reason I study this stuff is that I love mathematics, or I hate myself.

-H

PS BTW I am sorry I have jacked this thread.