Are people inherently stupid?

**SapiensErus** · 11-01-11, 05:17 PM

patriotism is in the heart and requires no symbol; if some patriots of our country believe the flag now represents something malign that is their right. I personally know soldiers from several branches who proudly display a flag, get irritated by people proudly displaying flags, wear them, or occasionally desecrate them in protest.

I have a marine friend who hangs a flag upside down because he believes it no longer represents the idea of America. People are entitled to that, and apparently being in the military does not give you a magical respect for a symbol if you think it is hollow.

As far as the original love it or leave it discussion, that idea is about as unpatriotic as it gets.

**deathgodusmc** · 11-01-11, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by CivilWars

First, I hope none of our bases/forts are ever overrun, but to be a fly on the wall when that last Marine drops the flag and doesn't find jack nor shit in the finial. Then what? LOL.

The only bases i know to ever be over run was air force base wake island and army base philippines but both were taken back. At least since ww1.

**Warprosper** · 11-01-11, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

Well lets see i give you what i was trained and read in print and you give me your story of working with flag poles. Yet somehow yours is proof and mine isnt? No one has proven anything which includes myself. So dont be to quick to pat yourself on the back becuase you havent proven anything.

Then you want to make a remark about my attitude when your is exactly the same just sitting on the other side of the fence. Nice try but try that bullshit with someone else cause it dont fly this way. Shit only runs downhill and the field of play so far has been level.

I am alittle curiour about these clearence and training reqs that appearntly no one at a Marine Corps air station seemed to have.

Yes real life experience defeats what is taught in a book any day of the week.

My attitude is much different than yours. I gave you scenarios in which I have experienced that disprove your non-working knowledge of the subject. Others have provided you with websites that reference sources that are definitive and clearly backup what I am telling you. You did not. I do not argue based on what I read in "basic" training. I divulge information about my job to you that supports my knowledge. You did not.

You then persist to ask questions about my job, position, and my comment on clearance or training requirements. These are things I would not ask of anyone especially someone who was in the military and held a clearance. Asking such questions about clearance requirements leads me to believe that you are somewhat lacking in the knowledge of what another military official is allowed to ask regarding the topic... I guess that one wasn't in the Marine Corps handbook.

The difference between you and I is that I admit when I am incorrect while you try to turn each additional comment into a different argument in an attempt to gain ground.. and that attitude doesn't hold any weight with me nor does it support your position.

**deathgodusmc** · 11-01-11, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by Warprosper

Yes real life experience defeats what is taught in a book any day of the week.

My attitude is much different than yours. I gave you scenarios in which I have experienced that disprove your non-working knowledge of the subject. Others have provided you with websites that reference sources that are definitive and clearly backup what I am telling you. You did not. I do not argue based on what I read in "basic" training. I divulge information about my job to you that supports my knowledge. You did not.

You then persist to ask questions about my job, position, and my comment on clearance or training requirements. These are things I would not ask of anyone especially someone who was in the military and held a clearance. Asking such questions about clearance requirements leads me to believe that you are somewhat lacking in the knowledge of what another military official is allowed to ask regarding the topic... I guess that one wasn't in the Marine Corps handbook.

The difference between you and I is that I admit when I am incorrect while you try to turn each additional comment into a different argument in an attempt to gain ground.. and that attitude doesn't hold any weight with me nor does it support your position.

Yes it does but your word on it is no different then the words i was taught. I highly believe in life experience because it is the best teacher. That being said though you haven't provided any proof any more then i have.

Your the one that said your job/clearance/training was above what any marine on an air station had. So dont get pissy when i point out that i doubt that. If you paid attention i did not ask you about the equipment, i did not ask you about your job other then mos, i did not ask you for your clearence, nor did i ask you about your training. So put the bs aside and try to remember those same clearences are shared by people in every branch for those jobs. Those training classes are taught for people in that field for every branch.

I will gladly admit the training i had is wrong when someone can provide real information of it being incorrect. Snopes isnt exactly what i would call proof. I never said that having those items in there made one bit of sense to me because as i stated to vis i would use the bullet to shoot one of them before i shot myself with it.

That being said does not remove what we were trained and what was in print. If that information is incorrect as i said to white earlier in the thread it would be the worlds biggest hoax because bootcamp takes everything serious so i doubt they taught it for no reason to millions of marines.

And yes your attitude is exactly the same. You dont see it because your argueing what you think is right of which makes me wrong. Its a mirror image.

**CivilWars** · 11-01-11, 05:58 PM

The difference is you read a book that said there was something in the flag pole. War actually inspected the flag pole.

**deathgodusmc** · 11-01-11, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by CivilWars

The difference is you read a book that said there was something in the flag pole. War actually inspected the flag pole.

Its not as trivial as i read it in a garfield book. This is a training manual used by the entire USMC for who knows how long. It was written by the leading people in the corps specifically to ensure every marine has every bit of information needed when he leaves boot camp and can reffer to at any time in the fleet. So making it sound like it was in the comic section of the news paper is disengenuous on your part.

**Warprosper** · 11-01-11, 06:07 PM

This training manual that you have failed to produce?

**deathgodusmc** · 11-01-11, 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by Warprosper

This training manual that you have failed to produce?

Your right i should pull it out the box and place it in my dvd player. Then you should be able to read it.

**CivilWars** · 11-01-11, 06:28 PM

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

Its not as trivial as i read it in a garfield book. This is a training manual used by the entire USMC for who knows how long. It was written by the leading people in the corps specifically to ensure every marine has every bit of information needed when he leaves boot camp and can reffer to at any time in the fleet. So making it sound like it was in the comic section of the news paper is disengenuous on your part.

Well, I read 4 reputable websites, including one specifically about the military, that said that you were wrong. Last I checked 4>1, so...

**deathgodusmc** · 11-01-11, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by CivilWars

Well, I read 4 reputable websites, including one specifically about the military, that said that you were wrong. Last I checked 4>1, so...

Im reading one right now that agrees with you both. This is a quote from that site.

" Third, another Marine phoned in to say that a question about the truck had been on an exam he took in basic training."
MILITARY TALE INSISTS TOP OF FLAGPOLE HOLDS LAST-DITCH MATCH AND BULLET | Deseret News

Its in the book i dont even have to dig it out to know that. I took that same test. I was quized while on line just as he was. So why pass the information and print the information if its inaccurate? I cant say they arent there because it goes against what was taught and i have never tried to climb a flag pole on a base to find out but i do have my doubts right now.