Thread: Sometimes scientists are just fucking stupid.

I know for a fact that BD has worked with and created worse viruses than this shit.

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Originally Posted by BigHub

I know for a fact that BD has worked with and created worse viruses than this shit.

Sent from my HTC Thunderbolt

That was who I was referring to as our "Resident Virologist" I just didn't want to "out" that knowledge as I couldn't remember if it was known widely or not. But that was part of my point.

Meh, I don't think he cares.. I mean he has participated in other threads sort of similar to this regarding viruses and what not.

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Originally Posted by Alundil

Not even touching that one


Hmm - ok.....So in order to make you feel better we should emulate base animals and blindly live until something (who the hell knows what "that" thing is) kills us in droves. Simply so that we can rest easy in the knowledge that we're not experimenting with a "bigger, better, killer."

How is it, if I might ask, were many of the existing vaccines, that society as a whole has benefited from, created? Wasn't it by playing around with existing viruses, both live and dead? I think it was. This is not that far afield from that.

As to your "self destructive nature" comment....in that case let's outlaw and confiscate anything that our self-destructive natures might choose to put to use in a ..... destructive manner.
"Turn in your guns, knives, pencils, pens, pillows, pills, alcohol, smokes, etc etc etc."

Self-destruction self-preservation right there.

You really think "creating" a bigger better killer is the answer? We really do quite well creating those just by looking for cures and better ways to grow shit as it is. I give you agent orange for that proof because thats how agent orange came to be.

Vaccines aren't created to solve issues with bacterial and viral infections for an infection that doesn't exsist yet. You have to have the virus to find the cure. Yes this one was created.

The difference between those items is it takes an action for it to kill. A virus doesn't need someones helping hand. Not to mention these labs let shit lose many times in the past due to human error. On top of that those items dont have the potential to kill at a rate this one does. The only weapon system right now that does is a nuclear weapon.

Originally Posted by Alundil

That was who I was referring to as our "Resident Virologist" I just didn't want to "out" that knowledge as I couldn't remember if it was known widely or not. But that was part of my point.

Everyone already knows.

Originally Posted by BigHub

I know for a fact that BD has worked with and created worse viruses than this shit.

Sent from my HTC Thunderbolt

There is definitely worse but that doesn't make it a good idea.

Well they sure as hell aren't doing it for the lulz. There are reasons behind it, and I'm sure BD would gladly explain why. I cant, as I am not an expert in that field.

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I would need a pretty good answer to explain why we created a virus just so we can create a cure for a virus that did not exsist. I mean if thats the case we should be working on mutatining the hiv virus so we can fail at the next step in its evolution.

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

You really think "creating" a bigger better killer is the answer?

Those were your words not mine. I happen to think that experimenting with pathogens, while dangerous, is a necessary thing (provided proper controls are in place). Genetic mutations of bacteria and viruses happen every generation of the virus or bacteria. Most of them provide little to no change to their viability or defining features, but it only takes one un-looked-for change to decimate a population. I I think that looking for those mutations and attempting to get ahead of them is a smart move. Aside from the "sky is falling" mentality you've displayed in this thread.

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

Vaccines aren't created to solve issues with bacterial and viral infections for an infection that doesn't exsist yet. You have to have the virus to find the cure. Yes this one was created.

If they were creating a "Frankenstein" virus that is totally unknown and bears no resemblance to other viruses, I might agree. However that is not the case in this issue. They are working on plausible mutations (strains of the same original virus). Big difference between this reality and your example.

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

The difference between those items is it takes an action for it to kill. A virus doesn't need someones helping hand. Not to mention these labs let shit lose many times in the past due to human error. On top of that those items dont have the potential to kill at a rate this one does. The only weapon system right now that does is a nuclear weapon.

Um, common strains of the infuenza virus have massive potential to kill. There are vaccines for the the most common strains already. Those were created by humans to deal with an ever changing (read mutating) flu virus. This is another flu virus. One would think that if we know that the flu virus already mutates really easily (seasonally) then other flu viruses might also mutate relatively easily. To pretend that this isn't reality is silly.


Bird Flu Virus Mutation, H5N1

"Influenza viruses keep changing. They mutate. And they exchange genetic material with other flu viruses, a process called reassortment. All that's needed is a mutation or reassortment that produces a new variant of H5N1 one that's as deadly as the current strain but as easily transmitted from human to human as lots of other flu strains. Most virologists believe something like this will happen sooner or later, and many believe it will happen soon. When it does, H5N1 will inevitably spread throughout the world. Worldwide mortality estimates range all the way from 2-7.4 million deaths (the "conservatively low" pandemic influenza calculation of a flu modeling expert at the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention) to 1 billion deaths (the avian influenza pandemic prediction of one Russian virologist). The estimates of most H5N1 experts range less widely but still widely. In an H5N1 pandemic, the experts guess that somewhere between a quarter of us and half of us would get sick, and somewhere between one percent and five percent of those who got sick would die the young and frail as well as the old and frail. If it's a quarter and one percent, that's 16 million dead; if it's a half and five percent, it's 160 million dead. Either way it's a big number." Pandemic Influenza Risk

Molecular Expressions Cell Biology: The Influenza (Flu) Virus

Mutations in the antigenic structure of the influenza virus have resulted in a number of different influenza subtypes and strains. Specific varieties of the virus are generally named according to the particular antigenic determinants of hemagglutinin (13 major types) and neuraminidase (9 major types) surface proteins they possess, as in influenza A(H2N1) and A(H3N2). New strains of the influenza virus emerge due to a gradual process known as antigenic drift, in which mutations within the virus antibody-binding sites accumulate over time. Through this mechanism, the virus is able to largely circumvent the body's immune system, which may not be able to recognize and confer immunity to a new influenza strain even if an individual has already built up immunity to a different strain of the virus. Both A and B influenza viruses continually undergo antigenic drift, but the reformulation of influenza vaccines each year often enables scientists to take into account any new strains that have emerged.

Influenza A also experiences another type of mutation called antigenic shift that results in a new subtype of the virus. Antigenic shift is a sudden change in antigenicity caused by the recombination of the influenza genome, which can occur when a cell becomes simultaneously infected by two different strains of type A influenza. The unusually broad range of hosts susceptible to influenza A appears to increase the likelihood that this event will occur. In particular, the mixing of strains that can infect birds, pigs, and humans is thought to be responsible for most antigenic shifts. Notably, in some parts of the world, humans live in close proximity to both swine and fowl, so that human strains and bird strains, may readily infect a pig at the same time, resulting in a unique virus. New subtypes of influenza A develop abruptly and unpredictably so that scientists are unable to prepare vaccines in advance that are effective against them. Consequently, the emergence of a new subtype of the virus can cause a global pandemic in a very short amount of time.

But go on thinking that viruses are unchanging and that scientists trying to head them off at the pass are "fucking stupid."

I could go on, but I think everyone else probably already gets the point.