Stupid people in this stupid economy, jobs and school

**deathgodusmc** · 07-06-13, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by SenSeiFAR

Just really sick of it. Is also why I am so scared to go to school. Plus I can't afford it.

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You dont have to do one or the other. Take 1 or 2 classes per semester. Sure it takes longer but you maintain your job and some free time so you dont burn out.

**Hocus Pocus** · 07-06-13, 09:21 AM

I think all of you are right. Nuck nailed it, student debt is through the roof. Where else can you qualify for a $50-$100k unsecured loan? I have buddies who've used it to buy cars and other items.

Not to mention the availability drives up the cost of education due to affordability.

The best part is when people graduate. They think employers are going to come knocking and offering them an $80k salary. I can't tell you how many friends I had in college who graduated with a degree in finance and work at target. School is more so a business now than ever.

Also, kids these days are spoiled brats and don't understand the concept of paying your dues. My first finance job coming out of college paid me $27k and it was a good banking finance job. I was mad everyday, bitched, moans, the works. But I stuck with it an climbed up the latter and now do much, much better than before.

I 100% agree with dg you don't need a degree to be successful. In fact America has a shortage of plumbers, electricians, roofers, etc and the ones we have are making a killing. I would say though having a degree opens more jobs and offers stability. I don't make a killing per se, but I wake up everyday knowing I have work for an infinite amount of time.

They're trade offs.

**deathgodusmc** · 07-06-13, 09:43 AM

I dont think it opens up more jobs. I think it makes it easier to get into a different set of jobs. However most people in positions like mine a degree wouldn't change anything. In fact i would earn less by going to do what i will eventually finish my degree in and having the skill set to do actually do the job means you have more knowledge then the person that went and got a degree in the field at times.

About 6 years ago I got into a disagreement with a salesmen where i work. It was far from our first encounter but he has a history of throwing his degrees in peoples faces and loves to think his vocabulary makes him a bigger person. That being said in the middle of our little bout he starts using bigger words in an effort to belittle me in front of what was now about 30 people eaves dropping. I tell him feel free to use whatever words he feels like using because i know those as well and i have been to college. He then moves to his degrees he has hanging on the wall and that im just an installer. So i told him "Remember one thing about those pieces of paper. Not one of them says you can do what i do and we both know you cant but i most certainly can do what you do because i do it everyday."

So i agree with you in a certain aspect but disagree in another. Odds are your not going to find many advanced biological engineers but most jobs are not like that. Most are like becoming an officer in the military. They want to see your degree in basket weaving before you get a desk which will earn you 0 respect from anyone but be that guy that worked his way up and no one questions your judgement.

**Warprosper** · 07-06-13, 09:44 AM

I'll tell you how things are from my perspective.

I served for 7 years,I have a 4 year degree, I've been in grad school for the last 1.5 years. I'm going full time as well as working full time while parenting a 4 year old and attempting to satisfy my wife

I'm, just as DG said....Becoming burnt out. Im on the other side of the spectrum when it comes to school loans. Thankfully the GI bill is paying my way through school, and if it wasn't I most likely wouldn't be going. I do not make 6 figures, it's close, but it's not 6 figures. I have over 12 years experience in network design and implementation. I feel as though I get paid just fine for what I do. I enjoy my job (most of the time).

Here's the shitty part. I know this person who got out of college and landed herself a job that requires 5+ years experience. It's not a large job by any means, but it's something that you need to be in the field for a little bit. It's an HR generalist position and those positions typically require 3-5 years experience. I think it pays somewhere around 45k. The girl in this position, got the job because her father knows the mayor. She has a 60k lexus suv that her daddy paid for, she has a masters degree that her daddy paid for. She is 25 years old. Good for her right.

The problem here is that this girl will soon be put in a position of authority, a position that requires actual experience. It's not the people who are overqualified that are the problem. It's the people who are in positions that are under qualified, that are the real problem.. The good ole boy system if you will. These people are going to be making decisions with a very minimal exposure and this is where employee morale goes down, this is how things change for the worse. This is the action that breeds the "I'm out of college and I deserve 50k" type attitudes. Nobody want's to climb the corporate ladder anymore. They want to graduate and jump right in at the middle or top. They look down on the people the work with because they feel as though they're better. This is the problem. So sooner or later, this girl who works in that position will become the HR director and she will make a mistake that hurts many people, this mistake will be made because she has 0 fucking experience. She came in right at the middle and missed out on learning the foundations of what makes a company work.

**deathgodusmc** · 07-06-13, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by Warprosper

I'll tell you how things are from my perspective.

I served for 7 years,I have a 4 year degree, I've been in grad school for the last 1.5 years. I'm going full time as well as working full time while parenting a 4 year old and attempting to satisfy my wife

I'm, just as DG said....Becoming burnt out. Im on the other side of the spectrum when it comes to school loans. Thankfully the GI bill is paying my way through school, and if it wasn't I most likely wouldn't be going. I do not make 6 figures, it's close, but it's not 6 figures. I have over 12 years experience in network design and implementation. I feel as though I get paid just fine for what I do. I enjoy my job (most of the time).

Here's the shitty part. I know this person who got out of college and landed herself a job that requires 5+ years experience. It's not a large job by any means, but it's something that you need to be in the field for a little bit. It's an HR generalist position and those positions typically require 3-5 years experience. I think it pays somewhere around 45k. The girl in this position, got the job because her father knows the mayor. She has a 60k lexus suv that her daddy paid for, she has a masters degree that her daddy paid for. She is 25 years old. Good for her right.

The problem here is that this girl will soon be put in a position of authority, a position that requires actual experience. It's not the people who are overqualified that are the problem. It's the people who are in positions that are under qualified, that are the real problem.. The good ole boy system if you will. These people are going to be making decisions with a very minimal exposure and this is where employee morale goes down, this is how things change for the worse. This is the action that breeds the "I'm out of college and I deserve 50k" type attitudes. Nobody want's to climb the corporate ladder anymore. They want to graduate and jump right in at the middle or top. They look down on the people the work with because they feel as though they're better. This is the problem. So sooner or later, this girl who works in that position will become the HR director and she will make a mistake that hurts many people, this mistake will be made because she has 0 fucking experience. She came in right at the middle and missed out on learning the foundations of what makes a company work.

That is definitely a problem.

**Warprosper** · 07-06-13, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

That is definitely a problem.

Yea, and it's everywhere you look.

**SpecOpsScott** · 07-06-13, 09:59 AM

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

Thats a double edged sword. Yeah im older then you so i've been here to see just how much kids have changed. To make it worse i do a lot of work on schools, colleges, and universities. So yeah i know what the kids are like.

Just 2 weekends ago 2 little fuckers at UCF thought they were impressing females by being dressed like MIB. I mean the whole deal black suits, white shirt, tie, and sun glasses. When i heard a small remark about me and my orange shirt i wear now a days because construction sites want that or a vest i simply asked them why they were stupid enough to dress like that walking around campus in 100 degree whether. The girls snickered and walked off. I found out later the females were there because it was new freshmen move in day.

Up until last weekend i believed exactly the same thing. But one of the contractors i work with landed a job doing a frat house rehab at RPI (Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute) in Troy and needed my help laying out and replacing the waste lines between the first and second floor. Not a glorious "job" by the standards of what is taught at that school. The place was full of your typical young college students doing what they do on a hot sunny Saturday afternoon. But i must say, they were helpful and respectful in every way. Quite the opposite of what i expected considering alot of these kids backgrounds. Frankly the worst part of the day was being reminded how old i am getting! I chatted with a few of them on and off, and most if not all didn't expect to jump right in and get a 6 figure job even though some of them will indeed be qualified for it in some markets. They are starting to get it that true success takes time and a lot more work outside of school than will ever be required while still in school.

In regards to the OP, up here in the Capitol area of NY, we have a pretty busy economy, but the job market is hungry for experienced people only. My 20 year old son who is damn hard working at anything he does was looking for work for a year and a half. He took whatever job he could but nothing steady. Any job that was a long term prospect rejected him due to lack of experience. Finally, one of my customers said he would give him a shot, but he made no promises. Well, hes happy as hell and has even offered to finance some further education for my son. Its a tough market here for kids that really do want to work, but just dont have have the experience that employers are looking for.

**SpecOpsScott** · 07-06-13, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by Warprosper

Yea, and it's everywhere you look.

Yeah that too, its real noticeable here because Albany is such a hub for state politics. Once you get into the business culture here you see it all over the place. Shit, even in the company i work for there are a couple of people that are in the positions they are in only because past family members held high positions (that they truly earned) in the past. Fortunately, its not rampant, and i believe that's a big reason for our success.

**SenSeiFAR** · 07-06-13, 10:07 AM

Well down in Houston, it's the opposite. People with experience and who are qualified have jobs not a whole lit lot of openings. But tons of entry to miss range jobs.

I loved my job till recently and the money isn't great anymore.

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**SenSeiFAR** · 07-06-13, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by SpecOpsScott

Up until last weekend i believed exactly the same thing. But one of the contractors i work with landed a job doing a frat house rehab at RPI (Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute) in Troy and needed my help laying out and replacing the waste lines between the first and second floor. Not a glorious "job" by the standards of what is taught at that school. The place was full of your typical young college students doing what they do on a hot sunny Saturday afternoon. But i must say, they were helpful and respectful in every way. Quite the opposite of what i expected considering alot of these kids backgrounds. Frankly the worst part of the day was being reminded how old i am getting! I chatted with a few of them on and off, and most if not all didn't expect to jump right in and get a 6 figure job even though some of them will indeed be qualified for it in some markets. They are starting to get it that true success takes time and a lot more work outside of school than will ever be required while still in school.

In regards to the OP, up here in the Capitol area of NY, we have a pretty busy economy, but the job market is hungry for experienced people only. My 20 year old son who is damn hard working at anything he does was looking for work for a year and a half. He took whatever job he could but nothing steady. Any job that was a long term prospect rejected him due to lack of experience. Finally, one of my customers said he would give him a shot, but he made no promises. Well, hes happy as hell and has even offered to finance some further education for my son. Its a tough market here for kids that really do want to work, but just dont have have the experience that employers are looking for.

Well the issue is most kids are not what you described. Maybe I'm your area it's more helpful than not, but down here is an issue.

Like I said initially, and I'll elaborate.

Bums: do not work, no work ethic, lazy, incompetent.

Con artists: people who only look to cheat the system, steal, do fraud.

Rich and spoiled: kids who do not need the money, so have no respect for the job or money.

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