Asian Needs help in debate

**MotoZ** · 10-04-07, 07:18 AM

Originally Posted by CivilWars

OK, so I ask you this. Do you really think there is any way, with all the scrutiny the US is getting over the war from the UN and almost every other country, we could sneek out a quart of oil from Iraq?

Civil,

I found an article a while ago that explained how Iraq oil sales worked. It bored the piss out of me descibing a netowrk of U.N. committees, Iraq agencies, trust funds, markets, ad nauseum.

In a gross oversimplification, which is all I got, here is my understanding of how we get the oil out:

We hold pistolas to the heads of the Iraqi's that are in control of the stuff and say, stop fucking around or else. I don't think we are actually stealing oil. There was also some stuff in the literature about U.S. investing in oil field improvements to increase the yield and/or flow rates from Iraq fields.

**w4jchosen** · 10-04-07, 07:37 AM

Originally Posted by ebaconjr

Originally Posted by ATEXANnHISGUN

If we went to war with Iraq 2x now for oil, then why the fuck are my gas prices so high?!

Gas taxes to pay for two wars.

Just kidding. My understanding is that the issue isn't so much the current price of oil, but rather a reliable flow of oil in the future to sustain economic and social stability.

Not to mention the ability to refine it. We have a serious shortage of refineries in this country so it wouldn't matter how much oil we were able to get. The flow of oil, while an obvious contributor to the price of gas is really the smallest piece of the puzzle. The biggest piece is the amount of tax that is placed on gas followed closely by our ability to refine it.

**a weakling spaz** · 10-04-07, 09:25 AM

Originally Posted by ebaconjr

Originally Posted by ATEXANnHISGUN

If we went to war with Iraq 2x now for oil, then why the fuck are my gas prices so high?!

Gas taxes to pay for two wars.

Just kidding. My understanding is that the issue isn't so much the current price of oil, but rather a reliable flow of oil in the future to sustain economic and social stability.

Exactly.

Originally Posted by CivilWars

OK, so I ask you this. Do you really think there is any way, with all the scrutiny the US is getting over the war from the UN and almost every other country, we could sneek out a quart of oil from Iraq?

UN - What is that big tanker in the Persian Gulf?
US - We needed some salt water.
UN - OK, proceed.

I highly doubt it. If I am wrong then the oil argument is valid. If I am right then all we have done is send the Iraqi oil where it was intended in the first place, not just America, and send the money/food traded for it to the Iraqi people, instaed of building a dictator a golden toilet.

I will read the articles you have posted.

Since when has the U.S. not done what we want, and to hell with everybody else?

**CivilWars** · 10-04-07, 09:55 AM

Don't you think if we were stealing the oil, or even buying more than what the world agreed on, from the people we claimed to be liberating that it would be ntional news daily, and I am not talking about from Rosie and Alec Baldwin. I mean reliable sources like Wikipedia! Threw that in just for you Ranger.

If it were just about the oil we would pull out all of the ground troops, send in enough birds to level the majority of the country, then move in and set up shop.

**tgross791** · 10-04-07, 11:08 AM

Asian,

This is your Spanish teacher.........not your history teacher.....there are things you have to just deal with unless...instead of asking us to help you debate, you take the next step if you feel you are being discriminated upon as a student/citizen of the U.S. and write a formal letter of Complaint to the school board, the principal, the PTA, the PTSA, and to the teachers union. Now it can be one letter and several different addressed to headings.....That is the only reasonable way you are going to get your point across, debating with your teacher might be some satisfaction but remember, it is your Spanish teacher and she could very well be the type of person to bring your grade down, and I take it, it is your junior year and that year is the most important year that colleges will see. So instead of thrusting forward, step back, observe the situation and do something a bit different. But at least if you document that you have written to the appropriate people that is the only way you will make a difference.

No need debating in class or after class, if you want to make the difference write to those groups/people. I have seen it work. I do not know from experience but I have seen it from other people I know who have done it. Hell if no one responds and you feel still it's unjust, remember save the letters you write, and you can even contact the local newspaper........

**asianator365** · 10-04-07, 06:17 PM

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**a weakling spaz** · 10-04-07, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by CivilWars

Don't you think if we were stealing the oil, or even buying more than what the world agreed on, from the people we claimed to be liberating that it would be ntional news daily, and I am not talking about from Rosie and Alec Baldwin. I mean reliable sources like Wikipedia! Threw that in just for you Ranger.

If it were just about the oil we would pull out all of the ground troops, send in enough birds to level the majority of the country, then move in and set up shop.

I thought I was abundantly clear when I said:

Originally Posted by a weakling spaz

Also keep in mind I'm NOT saying that the war is clearly about oil but just "food for thought."

I haven't seen any evidence to support that we are "stealing" oil now. I'm just saying it's thought provoking if you think about it in the long-term. I didn't intend to stir up a heated debate. It's a bit pointless since I'm just suggesting there could be a long-term motivation and you insist on arguing over the short-term.

Because it might be one of our motivations behind the war in the long-term, I think there are questions worth exploring other than how much oil we import from Iraq right now.

How much oil does the U.S. have?
How much oil does Iraq have?
How much oil does the U.S. consume?
etc..

Also, we could "level the majority of the country" but that would be genocide and pretty much guaranteed to get us more than criticism.

**CivilWars** · 10-04-07, 06:36 PM

I agree that oil plays a part. The part it plays is making sure it is distributed as agreed upon by many nations and organizations, both now and in the future.

I also feel that if we EVER took more than our fair share there will be proof and outcry from anyone with a voice, and a documentary by Michael Moore. When/if Iraq becomes more stable it will be even more difficult because the UN and OPEC will be willing/able to monitor things even more closely without the threat of daily death.

Plus, based on all of the outcry against current administration we will probably have a Democrat in office for at least the next 4 years, and we know they never do anything unethical, so we have nothing to worry about for at least that part of the FUTURE. (Intentional low blow at Democrats included free of charge, and not part of the argument itself.)

If all we cared about was getting our oil why would we care what others thought about our tactics of doing it?

I am not trying to fight either, I am calm and peaceful, but enjoying the discussion.

**sgt.coolhandluke** · 10-04-07, 07:06 PM

Here is some food for thought, What is the one thing our military cannot do without(besides soldiers)? This one thing is what makes it so we can fight terrorism, drugs, and what ever else we want to declare war on, without it our military does nothing. So what are we after in Iraq? I'm pretty sure bush & co. could give 2 shits less about the welfare of Iraqi's, considering how much care he has shown for us Americans.

**tgross791** · 10-04-07, 10:21 PM

Originally Posted by sgt.coolhandluke

Here is some food for thought, What is the one thing our military cannot do without(besides soldiers)? This one thing is what makes it so we can fight terrorism, drugs, and what ever else we want to declare war on, without it our military does nothing. So what are we after in Iraq? I'm pretty sure bush & co. could give 2 shits less about the welfare of Iraqi's, considering how much care he has shown for us Americans.

what kind of faggot shit answer is that? bush and the american government doesn't care about americans and iraqi's? thats lame.......honestly is......i am sick and tired about people saying oil oil oil everyone needs oil, transportation trucks can run without oil, cars, trains, etc etc, in every fucking country......yes the us uses the most but bush does care and so does the government.....so stop this faggot shit bitching.